Battery not charging, Help Lynn
#21
02-26-2012, 09:10 PM
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.... So i have been out and removed the cover i actually have 6 coil stator! Not sure if this changes anything you have said. I will do the tests again tomorrow. I bought quad as non runner. I already have regulator unbolted from frame. As for it getting hot, it was but unsure as it was hanging beside the engine. Look forward to hearing from you.
. Definitely do those tests over. Post the results please 
. Then let's go from there...
#22
03-01-2012, 07:12 AM
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Y - W wire 14v
W - G wire 22v
Y - G wire 16v
All these volts were rising as the revs got higher, looks as though it has doubled the voltage.
Not did the other tests yet. Will try tomorrow.
Last edited by tyrone81; 03-01-2012 at 07:27 AM. Reason: Forgot to mention something
#24
03-01-2012, 11:54 PM
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I should have been more clear on the redo tests....
Unplug all wires from the stator, and measure the resistance (in ohms) looking into the stator between the yellow and white wires. It should be 1 ohms or so for a six pole stator. Then measure each of the resistances from the yellow wire and the white wire to engine ground. Here you should measure infinite ohms (no connection, or "OL" for open loop) for a 6 pole stator.
On 12/06/11 you reported that the resistance from the yellow wire and the white wire to ground was 1.0 ohms. That would be normal for a 2 coil stator, but not for a 6 coil stator. So what I'm wondering is was this measurement error, or is the 6 coil stator bad (with a short to ground)?
The voltage readings for the stator output don't add up. The voltage bewteen the yellow and white should be equal to the voltage on the yellow to ground added on to the voltage from the white to ground - if you have a two coil stator and/or if you have 6 coil stator with a short to ground somewhere. Your earlier post on 12/06 did add up, and that is what steered us toward the 2 coil stator.
So it is time to retrench and measure again. Please verify whether or not you have a low value of resistance from the yellow or white wire to engine ground looking into the stator with all wire harness connections unplugged...
BAsed on these results we can deterine if your stator is OK. The we look for a regulator for a GY6 style engine and get it wired up.
Unplug all wires from the stator, and measure the resistance (in ohms) looking into the stator between the yellow and white wires. It should be 1 ohms or so for a six pole stator. Then measure each of the resistances from the yellow wire and the white wire to engine ground. Here you should measure infinite ohms (no connection, or "OL" for open loop) for a 6 pole stator.
On 12/06/11 you reported that the resistance from the yellow wire and the white wire to ground was 1.0 ohms. That would be normal for a 2 coil stator, but not for a 6 coil stator. So what I'm wondering is was this measurement error, or is the 6 coil stator bad (with a short to ground)?
The voltage readings for the stator output don't add up. The voltage bewteen the yellow and white should be equal to the voltage on the yellow to ground added on to the voltage from the white to ground - if you have a two coil stator and/or if you have 6 coil stator with a short to ground somewhere. Your earlier post on 12/06 did add up, and that is what steered us toward the 2 coil stator.
So it is time to retrench and measure again. Please verify whether or not you have a low value of resistance from the yellow or white wire to engine ground looking into the stator with all wire harness connections unplugged...
BAsed on these results we can deterine if your stator is OK. The we look for a regulator for a GY6 style engine and get it wired up.
#25
03-02-2012, 06:35 AM
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I should have been more clear on the redo tests....
Unplug all wires from the stator, and measure the resistance (in ohms) looking into the stator between the yellow and white wires. It should be 1 ohms or so for a six pole stator. Then measure each of the resistances from the yellow wire and the white wire to engine ground. Here you should measure infinite ohms (no connection, or "OL" for open loop) for a 6 pole stator.
On 12/06/11 you reported that the resistance from the yellow wire and the white wire to ground was 1.0 ohms. That would be normal for a 2 coil stator, but not for a 6 coil stator. So what I'm wondering is was this measurement error, or is the 6 coil stator bad (with a short to ground)?
The voltage readings for the stator output don't add up. The voltage bewteen the yellow and white should be equal to the voltage on the yellow to ground added on to the voltage from the white to ground - if you have a two coil stator and/or if you have 6 coil stator with a short to ground somewhere. Your earlier post on 12/06 did add up, and that is what steered us toward the 2 coil stator.
So it is time to retrench and measure again. Please verify whether or not you have a low value of resistance from the yellow or white wire to engine ground looking into the stator with all wire harness connections unplugged...
BAsed on these results we can deterine if your stator is OK. The we look for a regulator for a GY6 style engine and get it wired up.
Unplug all wires from the stator, and measure the resistance (in ohms) looking into the stator between the yellow and white wires. It should be 1 ohms or so for a six pole stator. Then measure each of the resistances from the yellow wire and the white wire to engine ground. Here you should measure infinite ohms (no connection, or "OL" for open loop) for a 6 pole stator.
On 12/06/11 you reported that the resistance from the yellow wire and the white wire to ground was 1.0 ohms. That would be normal for a 2 coil stator, but not for a 6 coil stator. So what I'm wondering is was this measurement error, or is the 6 coil stator bad (with a short to ground)?
The voltage readings for the stator output don't add up. The voltage bewteen the yellow and white should be equal to the voltage on the yellow to ground added on to the voltage from the white to ground - if you have a two coil stator and/or if you have 6 coil stator with a short to ground somewhere. Your earlier post on 12/06 did add up, and that is what steered us toward the 2 coil stator.
So it is time to retrench and measure again. Please verify whether or not you have a low value of resistance from the yellow or white wire to engine ground looking into the stator with all wire harness connections unplugged...
BAsed on these results we can deterine if your stator is OK. The we look for a regulator for a GY6 style engine and get it wired up.
When i took the resistance readings from the yellow wire and the white wire to ground was 1.0 it was on 200 scale, but when changed to 2K it was 001.
Both white and yellow to ground were 01.2 on 200 scale, on 2k scale 001
#26
03-03-2012, 08:54 PM
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I started to answer this last night but then stopped to think about a while. I don't think you should measure any resistance to ground from the yellow or white wires. But there there should be very low resistance from the yellow wire to the white wire. You've twice reported low resistance to engine ground from these wires.
But at the same time I'm getting conflicting data, which makes me wonder if you are meauring it right...
You said:
(on the 200 ohm scale).
And you also said on the next line:
But these are exactly the same test with different results. I just want to make sure you are doing this right: Set you meter to read ohms on the 200 ohm scale. Black lead goes to engine/frame ground and the red lead goes to the unplugged yellow wire coming out of the stator. Do you read 1.0 ohms here? Or 1.2 ohms?. Do you read exactly the same on the white wire? (I wouldn't expect so...). ANd what do you measure when you put the red lead on the white wire, and the black lead on the yellow wire? Use the 200 ohm scale for all these tests...
1.0 ohms is the same as 0.001K ohms. So I expect that this is why you are seeing "1.0" on the 200 ohm scale and 001 on the 2K (or 2 KiloOhm) scale. Perhaps your meter has a missing decimal point. It is just like 1 gram is equal to 0.001 Kilograms. Or 1 meter is equal to 0.001 Kilometers...
I've been going on the assumption so far that your 6 pole stator is like the other 6 pole stators I've seen, which is quite different from the 2 coil stators. It is possible that there are 6 pole stators with a grounded battery charge coil system. I hope not - that would make this even more difficult.
But at the same time I'm getting conflicting data, which makes me wonder if you are meauring it right...
You said:
When i took the resistance readings from the yellow wire and the white wire to ground was 1.0
And you also said on the next line:
Both white and yellow to ground were 01.2 on 200 scale
1.0 ohms is the same as 0.001K ohms. So I expect that this is why you are seeing "1.0" on the 200 ohm scale and 001 on the 2K (or 2 KiloOhm) scale. Perhaps your meter has a missing decimal point. It is just like 1 gram is equal to 0.001 Kilograms. Or 1 meter is equal to 0.001 Kilometers...
I've been going on the assumption so far that your 6 pole stator is like the other 6 pole stators I've seen, which is quite different from the 2 coil stators. It is possible that there are 6 pole stators with a grounded battery charge coil system. I hope not - that would make this even more difficult.
#27
03-04-2012, 04:25 AM
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I started to answer this last night but then stopped to think about a while. I don't think you should measure any resistance to ground from the yellow or white wires. But there there should be very low resistance from the yellow wire to the white wire. You've twice reported low resistance to engine ground from these wires.
But at the same time I'm getting conflicting data, which makes me wonder if you are meauring it right...
You said: (on the 200 ohm scale).
And you also said on the next line: But these are exactly the same test with different results. I just want to make sure you are doing this right: Set you meter to read ohms on the 200 ohm scale. Black lead goes to engine/frame ground and the red lead goes to the unplugged yellow wire coming out of the stator. Do you read 1.0 ohms here? Or 1.2 ohms?. Do you read exactly the same on the white wire? (I wouldn't expect so...). ANd what do you measure when you put the red lead on the white wire, and the black lead on the yellow wire? Use the 200 ohm scale for all these tests...
1.0 ohms is the same as 0.001K ohms. So I expect that this is why you are seeing "1.0" on the 200 ohm scale and 001 on the 2K (or 2 KiloOhm) scale. Perhaps your meter has a missing decimal point. It is just like 1 gram is equal to 0.001 Kilograms. Or 1 meter is equal to 0.001 Kilometers...
I've been going on the assumption so far that your 6 pole stator is like the other 6 pole stators I've seen, which is quite different from the 2 coil stators. It is possible that there are 6 pole stators with a grounded battery charge coil system. I hope not - that would make this even more difficult.
But at the same time I'm getting conflicting data, which makes me wonder if you are meauring it right...
You said: (on the 200 ohm scale).
And you also said on the next line: But these are exactly the same test with different results. I just want to make sure you are doing this right: Set you meter to read ohms on the 200 ohm scale. Black lead goes to engine/frame ground and the red lead goes to the unplugged yellow wire coming out of the stator. Do you read 1.0 ohms here? Or 1.2 ohms?. Do you read exactly the same on the white wire? (I wouldn't expect so...). ANd what do you measure when you put the red lead on the white wire, and the black lead on the yellow wire? Use the 200 ohm scale for all these tests...
1.0 ohms is the same as 0.001K ohms. So I expect that this is why you are seeing "1.0" on the 200 ohm scale and 001 on the 2K (or 2 KiloOhm) scale. Perhaps your meter has a missing decimal point. It is just like 1 gram is equal to 0.001 Kilograms. Or 1 meter is equal to 0.001 Kilometers...
I've been going on the assumption so far that your 6 pole stator is like the other 6 pole stators I've seen, which is quite different from the 2 coil stators. It is possible that there are 6 pole stators with a grounded battery charge coil system. I hope not - that would make this even more difficult.
yellow to ground 1.0
white to ground 1.2
white to yellow 0.7
I have done this over and over, i have realised that when testing, when you hold the leads there for a few seconds the resistance can keep dropping till it settles.
#28
03-04-2012, 10:03 PM
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This has really got me puzzled on a couple of fronts. I am surprised that a six coil stator has a connection to ground inside the stator. Accepting that, the resistances don't add up. The difference in readings between yellow to ground, and white to ground. should equal the resistance the resistance from yellow to white. But it doesn't... If you short your two probes togetehr on the 200 ohm scale, what do you measure? It should be zero, but I wonder if your meter has an offset which could be corrupting readings a bit...
The 6 pole stator with a grounded battery charge winding is something I've never seen. I'm wondering, do you have a bad stator, or is there a version of stator I don't know about... I did some searching. I found a stator that clearly shows a grounded battery charge winding (expand the pic way up and look at the green wire) here:
Amazon.com: Stator 6 Poles GY6 Motorcycle Scooter Moped 125 150: Automotive
What is really surprising to me is that this pic says the stator is for a GY6 engine, which definately does not have a grounded battery charge winding. Maybe this is a generic stock (and technically incorrect) photo and shouldn't be subject to such intense scrutiny for people just looking for new generic GY6 stator. But the fact that you can clearly see a grounded battery charge winding in the photo says quite clearly that they do exist. This is completely new stuff to me.
I need to think about this for a day...
The 6 pole stator with a grounded battery charge winding is something I've never seen. I'm wondering, do you have a bad stator, or is there a version of stator I don't know about... I did some searching. I found a stator that clearly shows a grounded battery charge winding (expand the pic way up and look at the green wire) here:
Amazon.com: Stator 6 Poles GY6 Motorcycle Scooter Moped 125 150: Automotive
What is really surprising to me is that this pic says the stator is for a GY6 engine, which definately does not have a grounded battery charge winding. Maybe this is a generic stock (and technically incorrect) photo and shouldn't be subject to such intense scrutiny for people just looking for new generic GY6 stator. But the fact that you can clearly see a grounded battery charge winding in the photo says quite clearly that they do exist. This is completely new stuff to me.
I need to think about this for a day...
Sorry, Im confusing you and myself. Im mixing my self up between the two scales. Ok i have been out and tested again this morning.
yellow to ground 1.0
white to ground 1.2
white to yellow 0.7
I have done this over and over, i have realised that when testing, when you hold the leads there for a few seconds the resistance can keep dropping till it settles.
yellow to ground 1.0
white to ground 1.2
white to yellow 0.7
I have done this over and over, i have realised that when testing, when you hold the leads there for a few seconds the resistance can keep dropping till it settles.
#29
03-05-2012, 01:23 PM
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This has really got me puzzled on a couple of fronts. I am surprised that a six coil stator has a connection to ground inside the stator. Accepting that, the resistances don't add up. The difference in readings between yellow to ground, and white to ground. should equal the resistance the resistance from yellow to white. But it doesn't... If you short your two probes togetehr on the 200 ohm scale, what do you measure? It should be zero, but I wonder if your meter has an offset which could be corrupting readings a bit...
The 6 pole stator with a grounded battery charge winding is something I've never seen. I'm wondering, do you have a bad stator, or is there a version of stator I don't know about... I did some searching. I found a stator that clearly shows a grounded battery charge winding (expand the pic way up and look at the green wire) here:
Amazon.com: Stator 6 Poles GY6 Motorcycle Scooter Moped 125 150: Automotive
What is really surprising to me is that this pic says the stator is for a GY6 engine, which definately does not have a grounded battery charge winding. Maybe this is a generic stock (and technically incorrect) photo and shouldn't be subject to such intense scrutiny for people just looking for new generic GY6 stator. But the fact that you can clearly see a grounded battery charge winding in the photo says quite clearly that they do exist. This is completely new stuff to me.
I need to think about this for a day...
The 6 pole stator with a grounded battery charge winding is something I've never seen. I'm wondering, do you have a bad stator, or is there a version of stator I don't know about... I did some searching. I found a stator that clearly shows a grounded battery charge winding (expand the pic way up and look at the green wire) here:
Amazon.com: Stator 6 Poles GY6 Motorcycle Scooter Moped 125 150: Automotive
What is really surprising to me is that this pic says the stator is for a GY6 engine, which definately does not have a grounded battery charge winding. Maybe this is a generic stock (and technically incorrect) photo and shouldn't be subject to such intense scrutiny for people just looking for new generic GY6 stator. But the fact that you can clearly see a grounded battery charge winding in the photo says quite clearly that they do exist. This is completely new stuff to me.
I need to think about this for a day...
white and yellow to ground have no resistance and white and yellow show 001. Just when i seen that pic of the stator i also have a grounded wire in the stator, i have a pic. I don't think you have asked it, but there is a separate green wire coming off the stator.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d8...225_213702.jpg
#30
03-06-2012, 12:38 AM
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Yes your attached picture does show a grounded battery charge coil. I have to rethink my whole strategy.
And you did report earlier that your meter reads 0.6 ohms with the leads shorted (my bad). That is wrong (your meter is giving you wrong info) but we can work around it. So when your read 1.0 ohms (200 ohm scale) you're actually reading 0.4 ohms (0.4 plus 0.6 ohms equals 1.0 ohms). When you're reading 1.2 ohms it is actually 0.6 ohms. So the difference between the yellow and white wires to ground is 0.2 ohms. Your meter says 0.7 ohms but when we remove the 0.6 ohm offset that leaves 0.1 ohms. That doesn't agree with the 0.2 ohms calculated above, but it is only one least significant digit away so we can say that falls into the realm of the believable. My apologies for not catching on to the 0.6 ohm offset which you earlier reported.
Your stator resistances are normal based on the new model. So let's go back to your 3/01 post of stator voltages where you got 14 volts, 22 volts and 16 volts AC. Just like your ohms measurements these should add up, but they don't. The question I have is whether the stator is good or not (now that I know there really is a grounded battery charge winding on a 6 pole stator). We should be able to measure that, and then check the measurements by seeing if they "add up".
Some questions: When you measured the AC voltages coming out of the stator were they done by cranking the starter motor? Was the cranking speed the same for each test? Or was it done at idle? Was the idle speed the same for each test? The measurents must all be done under identical conditions so that we are comparing apples and apples . If the stator voltages measure OK (and add up) then we can eliminate the stator as a possible faulty part. Then we're back to the regulator again....
And you did report earlier that your meter reads 0.6 ohms with the leads shorted (my bad). That is wrong (your meter is giving you wrong info) but we can work around it. So when your read 1.0 ohms (200 ohm scale) you're actually reading 0.4 ohms (0.4 plus 0.6 ohms equals 1.0 ohms). When you're reading 1.2 ohms it is actually 0.6 ohms. So the difference between the yellow and white wires to ground is 0.2 ohms. Your meter says 0.7 ohms but when we remove the 0.6 ohm offset that leaves 0.1 ohms. That doesn't agree with the 0.2 ohms calculated above, but it is only one least significant digit away so we can say that falls into the realm of the believable. My apologies for not catching on to the 0.6 ohm offset which you earlier reported
.Your stator resistances are normal based on the new model. So let's go back to your 3/01 post of stator voltages where you got 14 volts, 22 volts and 16 volts AC. Just like your ohms measurements these should add up, but they don't. The question I have is whether the stator is good or not (now that I know there really is a grounded battery charge winding on a 6 pole stator). We should be able to measure that, and then check the measurements by seeing if they "add up".
Some questions: When you measured the AC voltages coming out of the stator were they done by cranking the starter motor? Was the cranking speed the same for each test? Or was it done at idle? Was the idle speed the same for each test? The measurents must all be done under identical conditions so that we are comparing apples and apples . If the stator voltages measure OK (and add up) then we can eliminate the stator as a possible faulty part. Then we're back to the regulator again....
