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  #1  
Old 12-06-2011, 05:19 PM
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Default china 110cc starter button doesn't work...

Hello. I am having an issue with a 110cc full auto china quad I bought cheap recently. The battery wouldn't hold a charge and the carb was gunked up so I got a new battery and cleaned the carb. When I hit the starter button nothing happened. I jumped the starter solenoid with a wrench and the engine started right up. The starter button seems to be fine. I can feel it making contact inside the housing. When I took it apart, everything was clean and the wires were soldered good. The wires going to the solenoid were ok. I tried a spare solenoid I had from a parts quad and it did nothing. I am not sure if that solenoid was good though. I never saw it work. I didn't see a key anwhere. I disconnected the front and rear brake wires and the tether switch in the back. I am assuming that if the safety switches are disconneted they won't lockout the starter or cut the spark. Am I right? Do all the safety lockout switches need to be connected for the starter button to work? Should I try another solenoid? What is going on here?!! Thanks in advance!
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2011, 06:51 PM
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Without seeing an electrical print, I'm just guessing, but I would say the electric start will not work if there are safety interlocks that need to be made. The old LT80s had a parking brake lever that had to be pulled to make an interlock switch before the electric start would work, could be yours is similar.
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  #3  
Old 12-06-2011, 09:55 PM
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95wolv is on the right path.

Chinese quads all have starter interlock circuitry to keep you from starting up the quad in gear accidently. It's the same general idea that keeps you from starting up your car in drive. Think about it. It's a really good idea. If you could would you bypass the neutral/drive safety interlock on your car, and then let a teenage driver use it?

The safety interlock on your quad requires that you be applying the brakes before the quad starter motor will turn. That way if you start it up and it is in gear the quad will stay put. The interlock uses the brake switch to sense if the brakes are applied. You disconnected that, so it's game over...

If your brake light isn't lit up, there is no power to feed your starter solenoid. You can wire up the brake light to allow power to the starter interlock wiring, or completely rewire the starter solenoid input side wiring.

You have spark, and the quad starts when you jump the solenoid, so as far as wiring somehow preventing spark, forget it. You have spark. The problem is getting the starter to turn.
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  #4  
Old 12-07-2011, 11:18 AM
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Thanks for the replies. I understand why the starter lockout switches are there for safety reasons. I wasn't sure if they could be bypassed by disconnecting them. I guess it doesn't work like that. I don't have the lights connected at the moment because the body is off. Do I need the lights connected to complete the lockout circuit or can I just squeeze the brake lever? If I can't get the lockout stuff to work, I will prolly rewire the starter button directly to the solenoid so that lockout stuff won't stop the starter.
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  #5  
Old 12-07-2011, 10:12 PM
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You don't need the brake *light* hooked up for the interlock to work. But you do need the brake *switch* hooked up and working. The brake switch provides power to the starter solenoid (when brakes are applied, and when the start button is pushed).

Here is how most chinese 110cc quads are wired in the starter interlock region:

Click the image to open in full size.

Note how the starter solenoid is fed 12 volts through:

1) The fuse,
2) the Ignition switch,
3) The brake switch.
4) The start button.

All of the above have to be connected and working to activate the starter solenoid.

Whether you bypass the saftey interlock is your business. I just want to you make make an informed decision with your eyes wide open...
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  #6  
Old 12-08-2011, 07:32 PM
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Thanks Lynn. That wiring diagram is nice to have as a reference. I actually have TWO 110cc quads that run but will not start with the push start button and I will refer to them as quad "1" and quad "2". Quad 1 is where my initial questions came from and I am having trouble with that because the wiring harness has been hacked up by a previous owner. So, I would like to get quad 2 working correctly so I can use that as a reference for quad 1. The only difference between quad 1 and quad 2 is that quad 2 has an alarm. I am not sure if it is just an alarm or an alarm and a remote start also but anyway I don't have the remote thing for it. Ok, so on quad 2 when I turn the ignition on and hold the brake in, the brake lights come on but when I hit the start button I get nothing when the alarm is connected or disconnected. I can hear the alarm thing making some noise when it is intially connected then after a couple of seconds the noise goes away. When I ground the solenoid wire that isn't connected to the brake light wires, the starter turns. So does that mean the alarm/remote start thing is locking out the starter? If so, how can I get it to not lockout? What can I do to bypass the alarm? I don't need it and I don't wanna have to buy anything just to get the push start to work. Any advice is greatly appreciated!
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  #7  
Old 12-08-2011, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arbowman View Post
...When I ground the solenoid wire that isn't connected to the brake light wires, the starter turns.
That's a little strange. Normally quads that have remote control options are wired are wired as in plan B wiring in the last post. Bigger quads that don't come with a remote are often liked like this:

Click the image to open in full size.

Note how this scheme shorts the "solenoid wire that isn't connected to the brake light wires" to ground using the start button. This is sure sounding like the way your quad is wired.

On your quad 2, what is the color of the wire that wires into the solenoid "non brake light" side? Use the wire color that is in the main harness - not the color of any pigtail wire coming out of the solenoid itself. Is the wiring harness side wire color the same color that is used for other ground wires?

If this wire color is not the color used for ground, then look to see if this same wire color pops out of the wire harness on the way to the start button. If it does you quad is wired as plan A.

Normally the generic remote control/alarm modules (which is just a decades old motorcycle alarm module that has been copied) is disabled by unplugging it. A slight change in operation occurs when you do this - if you have an AC powered ignition system: The quad no longer will shut off with the ignition switch - you must use the handlebar kill switch.
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  #8  
Old 12-10-2011, 09:20 PM
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Thanks again Lynn! You are awesome! Here's an update on quad 2: I wired the solenoid wire that wasn't going to the brake lights to a loose green ground wire coming from harness that was tied into the other green ground wires. There was also a lose wire that went to the starter button and the alarm but the wire coming back from the starter button wasn't grounded so there was no power being sent to the starter when the button is pushed. So, I just grounded the wire coming back from the start button and everything works great! Weird huh? Is that how the remote start works-by grounding and ungrounding the starter circuit like in Plan A through the alarm/remote module? It makes sense to me. Maybe if I had the remote I could have figured out if the alarm/remote was locking it out. The brake lights, lockout switch, ignition switch, and starter button all work like they should now except the ignition switch won't shut off the quad because the alarm is disconnected. You mentioned something about that in your last response. I am not sure about the history of this quad. Somebody has been messing with it though. The original coil had one wire coming from it that was not hooked up. It didn't look original. I swapped it out with a coil from a parts quad and then I had spark. Also, there was the wrong carb spacer. It was way too big and would leak air and rev high. It definently wasn't original so I swapped that spacer for the right size and it ran fine. All is good with quad 2 except getting the battery to stay charged. I just need to put it on the slow charger for while.

Here is an update on quad 1: This quad does not have an alarm. It does not have an ignition switch either which is strange. I think somebody had been messing with this one too. There were a couple of wires coming from the front of the harness that were not connected to anything and they didn't have any connectors on them. The wires were the fused red power wire coming from the battery, the black wire coming from the brake switches, and a green ground wire. So, I connected the red power wire to the black brake switch wire. The brake lights come on and the starter button works! The starter button was not grounded but the solenoid was so it looks like it is wired like in Plan B even though it is a bigger quad that doesn't have a remote. Quad 2 with a remote is wired like Plan A. It is like they are backwards! The only thing that doesn't work right on quad 1 is the headlights do not come on until the quad is running. Any idea why that is?

So, in summary both quads are now working great! Thanks again Lynn! Those wiring diagrams and your insight were very helpful!
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  #9  
Old 12-12-2011, 11:41 PM
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I'm glad you got it running .

I've never seen a remote wired up to a plan "A" starting circuit. Perhaps it is possible, but I'll have to think about that. Most remote enabled machines use plan "B", wher the remote supplies 12 volts to the solenoid activation coil, with the other side of the coil grounded.

On quad 1 it sounds like the three wires were for your missing ignition switch. Black is a common color for switched, fused 12 volts. Green is ground of course, but you're missing a black/white kill switch wire to make up the four connections to a standard ignition switch.
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  #10  
Old 12-20-2011, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnEdwards View Post
I'm glad you got it running .

I've never seen a remote wired up to a plan "A" starting circuit. Perhaps it is possible, but I'll have to think about that. Most remote enabled machines use plan "B", wher the remote supplies 12 volts to the solenoid activation coil, with the other side of the coil grounded.

On quad 1 it sounds like the three wires were for your missing ignition switch. Black is a common color for switched, fused 12 volts. Green is ground of course, but you're missing a black/white kill switch wire to make up the four connections to a standard ignition switch.
thank you for getting back to me i am thinking about through a relay but i cant seem to get my head around it lol . the three wires from my start cluster are black /white trace green and yellow with red trace this is live as soon as the ignition is on i have control of the ignition through the remote and kill though the remote but the start is bugging me thank you
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:46 PM
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110cc, alpine, atv, battery, button, charged, chinese, ideas, problems, running, start, starter, stay, well, wiring, wont



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