<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: DODGE57HEMI

My guess is by looking at this comparison the YFZ would be the better machine with the newest and greatest inovations!

http://www.powersportsnetwork....&vehicle2=101551&go=Go</end quote></div>

That's what I was looking at before. What does the YFZ have that is so innovative there? Let's see... the YFZ costs more than the LTR, is heavier than the LTR, and has less ground clearance than the LTR. I don't see anything on there that shows how the YFZ has the "newest and greatest inovations!" It has MORE of everything that most people don't want! I will admit that IMO It looks really really nice though! Don't get me wrong, it's a great bike, I just don't see what the big fuss is.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: bigned1904

raptor 700 not a good dune machine. u are out of your mind. i dont see how u call the 450r dune king. what would make the 450r a better dune machine than the raptor 700r. i really want to hear this. ant that ltr. first of all yami has done a suprior job with efi over the ltr. the first year ltrs were just crap. had tons of problems. yami efi accepts mods so much better than the ltr once u get past a pipe and intake.</end quote></div>

The Raptor has a much higher center of gravity, and it isn't as wide. As a result, it isn't nearly as stable. Honda makes one of the most durable, long lasting 450s out there. I think reconranger was saying a while back about how it is the only 450 that has complete some dessert race or something. That says a lot.

And dude, WTH? How do you know that the YFZ's EFI is so much better than the LTRs. How many YFZ Rs have even been sold yet? And the first year LTRs were definitely not crap. They were a game-changing machine. It was the first machine that was race ready (as in you didn't have to swap out the front A-Arms and widen the rear axle) and had EFI. Go on the LTR450 forums. You will see tons of 06s still running strong. You don't have a single factual argument against the LTR. And how does it not accept mods as well as the YFZ R does? Again, I know a few guys running a ton of mods that are fine... big bore kits, port/polished, everything. And few problems.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: reconranger

What I like about the 450's, is the use of Formula 1 technology to do more with less! Old school engine designs can only get more horsepower by adding more cc's. The 450's do it with intelligent design, not just bigger displacement, and they keep the weight/power ratio more favorable. There is a replacement for displacement!

Have you seen the new fuel injected Honda CRF450R dirt bike? They took evey bit of unnecessary metal off that engine. It is more the size of a 250 than any of the other 450's out there. It will be in a quad in a year or two, so that is what I am waiting for!

Don't get sucked into the 700 orbit just becaue it is a "700".</end quote></div>

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: reconranger
What I like about the 450's, is the use of Formula 1 technology to do more with less! Old school engine designs can only get more horsepower by adding more cc's. The 450's do it with intelligent design, not just bigger displacement, and they keep the weight/power ratio more favorable. There is a replacement for displacement!

Have you seen the new fuel injected Honda CRF450R dirt bike? They took evey bit of unnecessary metal off that engine. It is more the size of a 250 than any of the other 450's out there. It will be in a quad in a year or two, so that is what I am waiting for!

Don't get sucked into the 700 orbit just because it is a "700".</end quote></div>


Exactly! The 450 has a much better weight/power ratio than the 700. The 700 is a great quad if you are a heavier guy and you aren't doing much racing. And it is slightly easier to maintain. If you are a lighter guy, and you ONLY really want to hit tight trails then a Can Am DS450 XC or a KTM XC or a 400 cc bike would all be great choices.

On another note, to Tye55, you could also do something like buy a 2009 Z400, and swap on a big-bore kit! Then you would basically have an XC version of the LTR! It would be the same size engine, narrower, EFI, and it has similar plastic!

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Canadian144

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: DODGE57HEMI



My guess is by looking at this comparison the YFZ would be the better machine with the newest and greatest inovations!



http://www.powersportsnetwork....&vehicle2=101551&go=Go</end quote></div>



That's what I was looking at before. What does the YFZ have that is so innovative there? Let's see... the YFZ costs more than the LTR, is heavier than the LTR, and has less ground clearance than the LTR. I don't see anything on there that shows how the YFZ has the "newest and greatest inovations!" It has MORE of everything that most people don't want! I will admit that IMO It looks really really nice though! Don't get me wrong, it's a great bike, I just don't see what the big fuss is.



Um no the YFZ is lighter by 9.5lbs built on a smaller tighter chassis with a better EFI system.All this on a bike that already is the most winnegest bike in history. You cannot knock the YFZ as all other MFG are chassing just to catch up to the old YFZ and now will have to play catchup once again with the R!

P.S. The one and olny reason that Honda does so well in Baja is that the get full MFG race support for these races where as Yamaha gives it to the GNCC racers and we see who is doing best in those races!

 

Actually that's the wet weight that's listed for 09 on that website. Look at the 08 (http://www.powersportsnetwork....ehicle2=100562&go=Go). Dry Weight 368 lbs. (167 kg) 405 lbs. That's what it says. The LTR is the left.

How is the chassis any smaller?
Length 72.6 in. (1,845 mm) 70.7 in.
Width 49 in. (1,245 mm) 48.8 in.
Height 42.7 in. (1,085 mm) 41.9 in.
Wheelbase 50.6 in. (1,285 mm) 50 in.

Oooh, the Suzuki is larger by about an inch just about all around. BIG DEAL. And the fact that it's the most winningest bike doesn't mean much for those who aren't racing or don't follow it. I really couldn't care less if Suzuki had the most wins, or if Honda did, or if Yamaha did, or if KTM did, or whatever. It just doesn't affect my purchase. Plus, rider ability and skill plays a part in that. Give the best bike to the worst rider, and the worst bike to the best rider, the best rider on the worst bike will still probably win. Not that I'm saying that the YFZ is the worst bike at all.

And again, how are any of the manufacturers trying to catchup to the YFZ? Suzuki made the first race ready bike. Then KTM comes along and does the same. Followed by Can AM. And then Yamaha. So the way I see it everyone was trying to catchup to Suzuki! And most of the manufacturers won't have to try to catchup to the YFZ R, just Honda and Kawi really. Everyone else already has a bike that is similar to the R. The R isn't a game changer at all. It brings NOTHING new to the table IMO. It is just Yamaha's version of a race-ready bike. It's a great bike, just nothing new really.

And why is everyone saying that the YFZ has a much better EFI system? What is so much better about it? How do you know that it won't be plauged with problems? Everyone says that the LTR has such a bad EFI system, not one review of the LTR says anything about it. I have seen no complaints on it. Yet still everyone complains about it.

P.S I just noticed that you got an 09 Grizz SE and looked at your pics, congrats BTW! And you might wanna change the MOPAR acronym... it's actually bashing Mopar! It's directed at people driving Mopars! Believe me, I'm a Mopar guy, on various other forums chevy guys are always using that against us. My dad is looking at either getting an 09 1500 Ram Sport (with all the Laramie features) or an 09 Ford F150 FX4 with the luxury package (basically a Lariat but with the FX4 outer trim and the FX4 rear locking diff).

 

This is a dam good discussion.The 450r is the Dessert king not the dunes.Look at such races as Dakar,Baja 1000 and 500 what is everybody winning on the Honda 450r!The Honda 450r is great in the dunes.Most of the 450's out in the dunes are yfz's and 450rs.I too have never liked the ergoes of the raptor,way too high centered for my tastes.I personally for what this guy wants to do would get a yfz or a 450r.

 

Also,the Yfz and the honda 450r are proven winners!Show me some championships or major races the Raptor 700 or Ltr 450 has won!

 

Ooops, I meant to say desert king not dune king. I think that also the 450R or YFZ would be best (never read the part about the LTR might be too wide for his trails). A regular YFZ, 450R, Kawi 450, or a Can Am DS450 XC would all be good choices IMO.

Or he could just buy any 400cc bike and get a big bore 450! lol

And is the Raptor even in any races? I couldn't tell you which races the LTR has won, since I don't follow racing.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Canadian144



<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: bigned1904



raptor 700 not a good dune machine. u are out of your mind. i dont see how u call the 450r dune king. what would make the 450r a better dune machine than the raptor 700r. i really want to hear this. ant that ltr. first of all yami has done a suprior job with efi over the ltr. the first year ltrs were just crap. had tons of problems. yami efi accepts mods so much better than the ltr once u get past a pipe and intake.</end quote></div>



The Raptor has a much higher center of gravity, and it isn't as wide. As a result, it isn't nearly as stable. Honda makes one of the most durable, long lasting 450s out there. I think reconranger was saying a while back about how it is the only 450 that has complete some dessert race or something. That says a lot.



And dude, WTH? How do you know that the YFZ's EFI is so much better than the LTRs. How many YFZ Rs have even been sold yet? And the first year LTRs were definitely not crap. They were a game-changing machine. It was the first machine that was race ready (as in you didn't have to swap out the front A-Arms and widen the rear axle) and had EFI. Go on the LTR450 forums. You will see tons of 06s still running strong. You don't have a single factual argument against the LTR. And how does it not accept mods as well as the YFZ R does? Again, I know a few guys running a ton of mods that are fine... big bore kits, port/polished, everything. And few problems.



!</end quote></div>

dude im talking about the raptor efi not the new yfz450r. and yes the ltr does not accpet mods well that is why u will never see a ltr450 in a four stroke drag comp and have it run with everyone else. the trx450r and the yfz450 will smoke the terd out of them. and if u look at the results for fsa in stockbore and duners class it is dominated by raptors. and yes the others are wider than it stock but i dont keep my stuff stock so i have solved that problem and will hit whoops pretty much as fast as any 450 out there(thanks for jd preformance, motowoz and rpm). when i go to glamis on a big weekend i might lose to 1 or 2 times the whole weekend down the sand drags.

 

I've seen many raptors win GNCC races and other xc races before.

Thanks for all the oppinions guys.

I still am leaning kinda towards the raptor, and a point that nobody has really coverd is how my friend said that the raptor would carry my weight better than a 450, I know the raptor has fully adjustable suspension so id be set on that but what about a 450?


Also i cant afford a KTM, honda or yamaha are my main options haha.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Canadian144

Actually that's the wet weight that's listed for 09 on that website. Look at the 08 (http://www.powersportsnetwork....ehicle2=100562&go=Go). Dry Weight 368 lbs. (167 kg) 405 lbs. That's what it says. The LTR is the left.



How is the chassis any smaller?

Length 72.6 in. (1,845 mm) 70.7 in.

Width 49 in. (1,245 mm) 48.8 in.

Height 42.7 in. (1,085 mm) 41.9 in.

Wheelbase 50.6 in. (1,285 mm) 50 in.



Oooh, the Suzuki is larger by about an inch just about all around. BIG DEAL. And the fact that it's the most winningest bike doesn't mean much for those who aren't racing or don't follow it. I really couldn't care less if Suzuki had the most wins, or if Honda did, or if Yamaha did, or if KTM did, or whatever. It just doesn't affect my purchase. Plus, rider ability and skill plays a part in that. Give the best bike to the worst rider, and the worst bike to the best rider, the best rider on the worst bike will still probably win. Not that I'm saying that the YFZ is the worst bike at all.



And again, how are any of the manufacturers trying to catchup to the YFZ? Suzuki made the first race ready bike. Then KTM comes along and does the same. Followed by Can AM. And then Yamaha. So the way I see it everyone was trying to catchup to Suzuki! And most of the manufacturers won't have to try to catchup to the YFZ R, just Honda and Kawi really. Everyone else already has a bike that is similar to the R. The R isn't a game changer at all. It brings NOTHING new to the table IMO. It is just Yamaha's version of a race-ready bike. It's a great bike, just nothing new really.



And why is everyone saying that the YFZ has a much better EFI system? What is so much better about it? How do you know that it won't be plauged with problems? Everyone says that the LTR has such a bad EFI system, not one review of the LTR says anything about it. I have seen no complaints on it. Yet still everyone complains about it.



P.S I just noticed that you got an 09 Grizz SE and looked at your pics, congrats BTW! And you might wanna change the MOPAR acronym... it's actually bashing Mopar! It's directed at people driving Mopars! Believe me, I'm a Mopar guy, on various other forums chevy guys are always using that against us. My dad is looking at either getting an 09 1500 Ram Sport (with all the Laramie features) or an 09 Ford F150 FX4 with the luxury package (basically a Lariat but with the FX4 outer trim and the FX4 rear locking diff).</end quote></div>

Any time a bike such as the YFZ has won as many races as it has, it will sell bikes. As a consumer when you buy a bike to ride you want to start with a proven chassis and the YFZ is just that. Yes you can buy better of the shoroom floor bikes but show me one that has aftermarket potential as the YFZ and you know you have a bike that is as good as any. The YFZ started the whole 450 craze and even though the original 450 might be getting beat by some of the newer bikes it was still the one to beat. Now there is the R do you honstly think Yamaha sat back and just did a few minor tweeks to its bike, I prommise we will see all the MFGs update there bikes to keep up! Next up is Honda with its 450!

All people who ride 450 bikes like to knock the Raptor as saying it is top heavey or whatever little quirks it might have but the bottom line is that it it is one of the best if not the best TRAIL/ALLAROUND bikes to ever exist!

As far as my sig goes I like to shove it right back into Ford/Chevy guys faces. And if you are a true MOPAR guy you know not to let FRIENDS or FAMILY drive Fords esp. the ugly ones such as the new 09 F-150![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

Another thing ive noticed with raptors is that i tend to hit my knees on the fenders a lot. but i havent ridden a 450r or ltr 450 enough to know if its just me sliding up or if their too small.