I think you're missing some very basic concepts beergut. I never said lean forward, you did. Of course you transfer your weight to the back, but what I said was, that isn't going to be enough to keep the rear tires from skidding if you are only using (or primarily using) the rear brakes for stopping power on a steep downhill.

Here is one of the only pictures I have of my Outtie 1000. It shows where I ride. Not a mountain in sight (joking), although the altitude where that Outlander is parked is 11,000+ feet.



Say what you want about "bad advise". I've ridden and raced for 35 years. Some of the AMA National Hare & Hound desert races I've been in have had some insanely tough uphills and downhills. Most of the clubs that put on these races pride themselves in providing the most challenging course that they can. All dirt bikes and sport ATVs have separate front and rear brakes, so I have a lot of experience using either front brakes, rear brakes, or both. One of the first things you learn when racing is that it is very typical for novice dirt bike riders to use mainly the rear brakes, and use the front brakes very little; but for expert riders to use the front brakes all the time, even more than the rear brakes in fact.

Just for another example, on our very last ride, my wife and I made a twenty mile loop on a trail in the mountains. Unfortunately the trail we were on ended about five miles from where the truck was at, so it was either five miles of boondocking it cross country back to the truck, or go twenty miles back and around to get to the truck. We went cross country, up and down the mountain sides to get back to the truck. There were several areas where my wife refused to ride her Renegade 800 XXc down a very steep section, over rock ledges, across severe sidehills, etc. So I would ride my Outlander across, then walk back and ride her Renegade across. No question in my mind which one has the better braking system for extremely steep terrain, and its the Renegade. Keeping the transfercase in four wheel drive helps, but even with that I always find that the front brakes provide more stopping power on downhills than the rear brakes do. And I've found that to be the case over the decades, you just plain get more stopping effect from the front brakes, especially on downhills where most of the weight of the vehicle is on the front tires. After you've ridden vehicles with separate front and rear brakes for a number of decades you get to the point where you dont even think about it. But if I do stop and think about it, like on this internet post, and I analyze what I am doing, I realize that I almost always apply more front brakes than rear brakes.

I think the point you are trying to make is actually the same point I am trying to make. And all of the points you make in your post are valid. The difference is that you are saying the front brakes provide too much braking power, so you're saying not to use them, or to use them very little. What I am saying is that the front brakes provide more braking power than the rear brakes, so they are going to provide the most stopping power, and you should use them. The difference between what I am saying and what you are saying, is a matter of control; knowing how much is enough, and how much is too much, kind of like the novice vs expert dirt bike rider analogy.

Have a nice day.

 

I think Beergut is cautioning using too much front brake on a downhill. If it's really steep and you're on the verge of the rear end lifting or lightening too much, hitting the front brakes would be counterproductive to a safe descent. It might be just enough to go end over end. You do get more braking out of the front but, as DV said, you learn as you go. There's no set solution for every hillside. Each one is different. I don't think it's a bad idea to have both levers and learn how to use them. Matter of preference to me.

 

I feel there is a place for seperate levers on 2 wd sport quads because of the way you have to ride them. I also feel that there are very few riders who can modulate the amount of front vs rear brake as well as a properly designed single lever system on a utility quad. Having owned and ridden sport quads and utility quads, both single lever and seperate, and I much prefer the single lever system on my Outlander. Like I stated before, in most steep slippery slopes you will be in 4wd anyway so it is a mute point. I can see why some utility quads that do not have 4 wheel engine braking while in 4wd might feel the need for seperate levers but that is just to overcome a design flaw.

 

I have to disagree. At least partially. Sure, some might seek out the opportunity to ride on the edge of control just for thrills, but I'm not one of those types anymore. Got older I guess.........
If I'm forced into a spooky situation nowadays, I want the ultimate in control and safety. Where I usually ride, there ain't no ambulance service. Heck, you're lucky to have cell service!

 

Kickstart,
If you do get an Outlander 1000, I think you are going to thoroughly enjoy it. You're from Utah too, so I can tell you I went for a ride in St. George today, and you know where it is at. My son and I rode the Rhino Rally desert race course, which has been held near St. George each February for the last 25 years. My son rode his KTM 300 XC dirt bike, and I decided to play catch up on the Outlander 1000.

I'm impressed with this Outlander 1000. Right off the start as we turned on to the trail I gave the throttle a little blip as I rode up the first whoop in the trail. The Outlander popped right up into the air, spanned the ten feet distance to the next whoop, and landed on the back side of the second whoop, just like a little double jump. Whoa, that was nice, and totally unexpected. The Outlander 1000 had done that as good as a sport quad, and landed real nice as well. Later, we were riding down one of the desert washes, and came up to a slickrock waterfall that was about a 4 feet drop, and there was an old sofa chair right at the bottom of the waterfall. That made me wonder what the heck a sofa chair was doing out in the middle of the desert, perhaps it had washed down the wash in the last flash flood. I grabbed the brakes and stopped to make sure it looked ok to ride off the rock ledge, and decided it would be. But I was stopped right at the edge of the drop off, and didn't have room to get any speed up to keep the front end light when riding off the edge. I decided to try and wheelie off the ledge, so blipped the throttle a little. The Outlander launched right off the ledge, with a perfect wheelie to start with , and a nice soft landing at the bottom of the ledge. Nice! Throughout the day I continued to be impressed with the Outlander 1000. It doesn't do whoops all that good, but nothing this size is going to. But other than that, the suspension is fantastic. It feels soft and plush, but is firm enough to still feel sporty and well controlled. I saw the Dirt Trax TV review on the Outlander 1000, and they said the suspension felt too stiff on preload setting #2. Well I have my preload set on setting #3, and for the type of terrain I did today it was perfect. I definitely don't think it is too stiff. I bottomed the suspension numerous times in the whoops today; but if you're not bottoming out in whoops like those, your suspension really is too stiff, and you're not using all of your suspension travel.

You may have also read on some other internet forums about people bending the steering stem on their Outlander and Renegade 1000s, just from "tugging on the bars". That had me worried, until today. After countless miles of pounding through the whoops, tugging on the bars all the time, my steering stem is still straight. There was even an incident today where I really acid tested the steering stem. I had gotten too far behind my son on his dirt bike (a recurring theme today), so decided to open it up on a narrow two track road. I came over a small rise, and saw a deep washout across the road right ahead of me. The washout was about two feet wide and two feet deep, with freshly washed out vertical sides. I grabbed the brakes, locked up all four tires, and scrubbed off some speed, but was going way too fast to slow down enough, so let off the brakes and gassed it at the last second to lighten up the front end. I still hit real hard, enough so that it threw me forward against the airbox and handlebars. Well, even with an impact to the steering stem like that, my steering stem is still straight. So I'm not sure what these guys on other forums are doing to bend their steering stems, but the steering stem appears plenty tough to me. The last time I hit a washout that hard was on a 2009 Renegade 800, and it did bend the steering stem on that ATV.

Anyway, sorry for the novel. I hope you get the Outlander 1000. I know you'll enjoy it if you do.

 

I don't believe DV ever said or implied that.

 

Oh sure, I'm typing my big long response at the same time you're typing "I'm not one of the types that seeks out the edge of control, just for thrills". Let me rephrase that whole post and just say that I think an Outlander 1000 will provide plenty of "excitement" for you, if thats what you want. Have fun with it.

 

That really says it all. Two machines (both Can Ams), one with double brakes, one without. Double brake system worked better here just as I have experienced myself. Thanks DV!

 

Don't sweat it DV! Just because I'm a more conservative driver doesn't mean everyone else should be! I'll probably end up trying some "on the edge of control" things once or twice on the new bike as well. But I'd better wait 'til she's paid off first!

 

Two other things to add:

One, the "mountain" debate was kinda funny. I used to live in West Virginia where the so called "mountains" are pretty prevalent. But being from Utah born and raised, I always grinned when people out East talked about their "mountains". It was similar to when they laughed at what I called a "river". They'd always say, "that ain't no river, that's a creek"!

Two, here's an interesting vid I found talking about brakes:
.
2012 Yamaha Grizzly 700 FI Auto. 4x4 EPS Competitive Comparisons
(Click on Polaris vs yamaha comparison and then go the the 4 wheel disc brake video)
So I guess I'm not totally crazy for thinking two are better than one......