Go Back   ATVConnection.com ATV Enthusiast Community » Brand Discussions Area » Chinese Quads
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search

Welcome to ATVConnection Forums!
Welcome to ATVConnection.com.

You are currently viewing our forums as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the ATVConnection Forums community today!


Reply Share this with your friends
  #1  
Old 08-24-2009, 02:29 PM
Weekend Warrior
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10
Default Starter/solenoid question

Need some help... When I press the button to start the Chinese 4 wheeler it does nothing... i did some searching and found that you can touch the 2 posts on the solenoid with plyers... well that works, so i ordered a solenoid, and the start button it still does nothing.... ground wire is looking ok. 4 wheeler was barely ridden, but sat for about 4 months. once its started its fine. Did i get a bad solenoid or is it possible a battery issue? Any suggestions??? Thanks in advance!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-24-2009, 11:51 PM
Electrical Expert
Likes High Voltage In The Tub!
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tracy, California, USA
Posts: 3,232
Default

When you short across the big terminals you are bypassing both the starter solenoid and all the other parts and wiring that activates it. So your problem most likely lies in all the other parts and wiring.

There are four terminals on the solenoid: The two big ones which you shorted with your pliers, and two little ones which go to a small actuating coil inside. When 12 volts is applied across the little terminals the coil inside generates a magnetic field which sucks down a steel plate which shorts the two big terminals together (just like you did with your pliers). When the steel plate sucks in it makes an audible "click". Normally you can't hear this because the noise of the starter motor drowns it out, but since your starter isn't turning you should be able to hear it. If you *do* hear the click coming out of the solenoid, and the starter doesn't turn, and shorting across the two big terminals with your pliers starts up the quad, then your 2'cnd solenoid is bad also.

I'm assuming you don't hear the click, so you're not getting 12 volts across the two small terminals. The quad has to have several working to get 12 volts across the solenoid actuating coil:

1) The main fuse can't be blown.
2) The ignition switch has to be on and working.
3) Some sort of safety interlock has to be satisfied to make sure the quad isn't going to lurch into someone when it starts up.
4) The start button switch must be pushed and working.
5) All of the wiring between these things must be correct and working.

What kind of quad are we talking about?

Re 3) above: Most often the safety interlock is the brake switch. Or it can be a neutral switch on the transmission. The brake switch method is more common. Do you remember which you had to do before to start it up? Apply the brakes, or make sure it is in neutral? If it is the brake switch style interlock, do you see the brake light come on when you apply the brake (ignition must be on of course)?

Then from here you'll need a voltmeter. You can buy them for under $10.00. With a few more measurements we should be able to get right to the problem.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-25-2009, 06:52 AM
Weekend Warrior
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10
Default

LynnEdwards, Thank you very much for the explanation, that is A LOT OF GREAT USEFUL knowledge!!!! The 4 wheeler in question looks identical to this, however not sure if its the same brand?!

http://www.bmxpowersports.com/store/...gory_Code=ATVS

I am 99% sure that it is in neutral and brake is definitely applied, but i didnt take notice to brake light coming on however. I will check the fuse (I am assuming you mean the cylinder type that is attached to the battery wire?) but I think that is good as well. I tore the starter switch apart and all looks good inside. All wiring seems to be good and looks good. 4 wheeler was hardly used before i got it and i havent put more than 2-3 hours on it. Also i dont hear clicking when i push the starter button, it actually does nothing. Thanks very much in advance for all your help!!!!

I will look at getting or at least borrowing a voltmeter in the mean time. Let me know what I need to do from here. Thanks again!!!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-26-2009, 10:19 AM
Electrical Expert
Likes High Voltage In The Tub!
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tracy, California, USA
Posts: 3,232
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter0527 View Post
...I am 99% sure that it is in neutral and brake is definitely applied, but i didnt take notice to brake light coming on however....
You'll only have one safety interlock - either a brake switch (most common) or the neutral switch, but not both. However if your quad used the brake switch method there may be two brake switches wired in parallel so that either brake switch being applied will allow the solenoid to activate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter0527 View Post
...I will check the fuse (I am assuming you mean the cylinder type that is attached to the battery wire?) but I think that is good as well...
Does the headlight(s) work? Can you turn the headlight(s) on and off with the ignition switch? Is so then you fuse is OK and one half of the two pole ignition switch is working. [The other pole of the igniton switch is used to turn off the engine and is not involved with this problem so we can ignore it].

Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter0527 View Post
...I will look at getting or at least borrowing a voltmeter in the mean time. Let me know what I need to do from here. Thanks again!!!
The next step is to measure the voltages and resistances on the small wires to the solenoid:

1) Turn the ignition on and apply the brakes. Make sure the brake light is on (if you have a brake light). What is the DC voltage from each side of the solenoid small wires to engine ground? That is two measurements - the first wire to ground and the second wire to ground.

2) Repeat the above two measurements, but this time do it while pressing the start button. Now you should have four voltage measurements.

3) Turn the ignition switch off. Release the brakes. Switch the voltmeter over to measure resistance (ohms). Measure the resistance from each side of the small solenoid wires to engine ground.

4) Repeat test #3 again but this time make the resistance measurements with the starter button pushed in. Now you should have 8 measurements - four voltages and four resistances.

What the above measurements will tell us are:

A) In what order the devices are wired up (is it brake switch then solenoid then starter button, or brake, starter button, solenoid).

B) Which side of the solenoid wiring has the problem (is the solenoid not getting 12 volts, or is the solenoid not getting ground).

This will narrow it down greatly, then we can go from there.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-31-2009, 09:12 AM
Weekend Warrior
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10
Default

OK, I found the problem. It appears that where the solenoid connects to the switch at the plug, one of the prongs was loose and eventually broke inside the connector. I did go out and get a multimeter but couldnt figure out for the life of me how to use it... then think I got it?! Black prong to ground and red touches the wire you are measuring?! Is that write? Thanks again for your help.... now off to the hardware store to get a new connection.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-31-2009, 11:31 PM
Electrical Expert
Likes High Voltage In The Tub!
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tracy, California, USA
Posts: 3,232
Default

Glad you got it working.

Yes, usually you measure voltage with respect to engine ground (but not always). Yes, you put the red lead on the voltage you want to measure and the black lead on the place you want to compare it to (ground in most cases).

There's nothing wrong with finding problems by mechanical inspection. A lot of times it is faster. But sometimes, like if the defect is hidden from view, a voltmeter is the fastest way to go. Any method that works is fine, but hopefully that doesn't involve buying and swapping out everything, still not getting the problem fixed, then eventually finding it is a simple broken wire somewhere.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-01-2009, 07:05 AM
Weekend Warrior
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10
Default

LynnEdwards, Yes I am glad I fixed it and it is something small! Problem is I cant find a connector for it at the local hardware store. I think I am going to have to just cut the plugs off and wire them together and then just tape them so they dont come apart. I might try lowes to see if they have it but chances are slim. Anyway, Thanks for all your help with this issue!!! It is greatly appreciated!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-13-2009, 10:01 PM
Weekend Warrior
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3
Default

WOW - here I am googling, trying to find answers to fix my kids ride and I find someone with the same issues it seems.

China "Eagle" 110cc ATV:
My tail lights wont work and the starter button will not work. I have been trying the screwdriver on the solenoid trick, but the motor just cranks. My guess seems to suggest that I have some type of short in the wiring??? Just a guess. It did this the day before, the tail light not working and not starting. My son started turning the handle bars back and fourth and the lights started to work and the start button worked. The next day, no lights or button.

Shouldnt it start when I hit the solenoid and since it isnt, would that suggest I have some type of short with the kill switches? Any help would be great.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-14-2009, 07:49 AM
Weekend Warrior
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 10
Default

Biggie, Yes it does sound like a short somewhere. These things are wired cheap. You know the saying, you get what you pay for. I know all to well with the one I have. Anyway, I would suggest getting a multimeter and doing some tests like LynnEdwards says above. You may also want to send him a PM as he, Im sure will have some good info for you. I just got lucky being that I stumbled on a broken connection. The obvious is make sure you have a ground. This sounds crazy, but I ended up cutting the wires and wire nutted them together.... Cranked and cranked for a while, but wouldnt start. Took the wire nut off and re-tied wires together, turned over and started first try. I have no idea why they didnt work first time??? If you have done anything with the wires, try undoing and re-doing?!!! Let us know how you make out.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-14-2009, 07:34 PM
Weekend Warrior
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3
Default

Thanks for the response. I am going to tear into it this weekend and see what happens. I will keep the thread updated. Anyone else with a suggestion, speak up! Thanks to all!
Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2009, 07:34 PM
Reply Share this with your friends

Tags
atv, button, hit, kill, lights, power, problems, quad, short, solenoid, spark, starter, switch, trick, wheeler, work



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On