Honda's dual clutch automatic compared to belt drives. - ATVConnection.com ATV Enthusiast Community




Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 12-07-2016, 10:19 AM
Weekend Warrior
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 2
Default Honda's dual clutch automatic compared to belt drives.

Are there advantages or disadvantages of Honda's dual clutch compared to the belt drives?

I'm asking because I will be purchasing an ATV in the future, and Honda is on the list.

My experience working for a gas/oil company is the Honda manual shifts are extremely durable and reliable with scheduled maintenance. However, I would like a bigger/more powerful ATV than a 300, 350 or 420. That means getting an auto trans.

I have no experience with Honda autos though.

I appreciate an answer from a mechanic that has real world experience with these machines.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-07-2016, 08:50 PM
Kymco 450i's Avatar
Pro Rider
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Perrysburg Ohio
Posts: 538
Default

I am not a mechanic even though I have always maintained all my own autos, atv's, boats etc including complete rebuilds so I guess I am sort of a mechanic. Antway here is my two cents worth. I have not owned any Honda with the automatic but have a couple friends that do, I have always been a cvt drive guy in my atv and utv's. When the automatic works they are great, but keep in mind they are electric shift and need a 12v battery to make that shift. If the battery goes dead you cant even get it back into neutral to push it. On the other hand a cvt belt is quite cheap to replace in comparison to an automatic transmission overhaul or even repair. They have their pros and cons and a lot depends on how lucky you are as any machine could be a problem. I also have some friends with the auto-clutch 5 speed gear boxes which are great in that you can select your own gear but they have all had some issues with them jamming in gear at some point. The only issues you ever have with a cvt is to replace a belt which most anyone with basic mechanical skills can do. I will say that Honda does make some nice equipment and for the most part are very well built but the automatic trannys and the electric shift trannys do make me nervous.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-08-2016, 04:37 AM
Pro Rider
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Lancaster England
Posts: 1,762
Default

The Hondamatic CVT drive was superb. It worked well in both the 400 and 500 Autos. The first 5 speed manual with auto override used on the 420 was horrible. The dual clutch version used on new 420s and 500s is better but still nothing like as smooth as the old Hondamatic. This is just the feel of using the bike. As regards reliability the new system seems to be OK, but it is very complex both mechanically and electronically. The simple belt system used by other makers is smooth and reliable, particularly the ones with a separate centrifugal clutch. Yes, belts do "let go" but they usually give some warning, and fitting a new one doesn't take long. One problem is the makers don't seem to have got the ratios right on a lot of belt drives, with the rider being left with a "why doesn't it change up now" feeling as you accelerate. This isn't inherent, as the Suzuki 500-750 feels right, the 400 doesn't. Nor are the small Yamahas, but the 550 is OK.

One point, you mention having to get an Auto. The 400 Suzuki is available in manual, as are 420 and 500 Hondas.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-08-2016, 09:15 AM
Weekend Warrior
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 2
Default Thanks for the replies.

Do the Honda autos have to be electric shift, or is that an option? I do not want anything with electric shifting.

The gas company I worked for did get a few Honda electric shift autos, and there were problems. They started getting Yamaha autos, and I did like those a lot. The Grizzly 450's engine braking really impressed me going down hill. I weigh 200 lbs., and it had no problems. And the front and back independent suspensions is really nice too.

I like the power of the 700 and 750 ATVs, and they're all autos. That's why I said I would have to get an auto with a bigger machine. However, Honda does make a 500 manual.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-08-2016, 01:45 PM
Pro Rider
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,193
Default

Another thing is that the cost of any of the Honda autos is higher than comparable cc machines by anyone else. Cvt belts generally last about 3000 miles or more. Even if you use a machine for work and put a ton of miles on it, its still not something you have to replace very often. Its honestly hard to say how reliable the new Honda dual clutch autos are since they haven't been around very long. The older autos were quite reliable but when something did fail, it was very costly to fix. Especially in the Rubicon if the transmission failed the owned usually just got rid of it instead of fixing it. But 10,000 miles or more was common on those. Hard to say if the new dual clutch autos will last that long. In a belt drive auto, the belt costs about $100 to replace+labor.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-11-2016, 08:35 AM
Pro Rider
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Lancaster England
Posts: 1,762
Default

The only purely mechanical autos are belt drive. All Honda auto quads are electronically controlled.

The auto fitted to the Honda Rincon is a bit more "old school" than the 420/500 as it is a conventional car style three speed Auto. Why they continue to make it I don't know, as it is no competition to the big Suzukis, Yams and Kawasakis. Our local Honda dealer told us not to sell them to farmers as they are too fragile.

Don't know about Yams, but genuine Suzuki belts cost considerably more than $100 and Gates replacements, considerably less than $100.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-11-2016, 02:23 PM
Pro Rider
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,193
Default

A Grizzly 660 belt was about $100. Haven't had to buy one yet for the Brute Force but I think its about the same price. The Rincon was an attempt by Honda to be different. In that, they succeeded. Why they didn't just put the Hondamatic in it that was in the Rubicon just made no sense. Maybe soon they will put a v-twin in it and the dual-clutch 6 speed like the Pioneer 1000 has. It would be a real contender then. Don't forget power steering and diff-lock as those have been overlooked on the Rincon as well.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-11-2016, 04:26 PM
jumbofrank's Avatar
Moto Psycho
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 6,743
Default

The last time I bought a belt for a Polaris ATV it was around $60. That let's you know it was a long time ago but belts do last a long time. One time I burned a belt and knew it was ready to break at any time. Instead of changing it I carried a spare belt and the minimum number of tools to change it. About 100 miles later it broke and it took me 1/2 hour to change it on the side of the trail. There was another time I burned the belt and it broke about 100 miles later. No matter how much a belt costs now it's still cheaper and easier than repairing an automotive type of transmission. I haven't burned or broke a belt in several years. They last for thousands of miles.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:58 AM.