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  #1  
Old 01-07-2008, 08:09 PM
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Default 2003 650 Rincon Engine noises

I have a 2003 650 Rincon Honda that makes some scary sounds until it is good and warmed up. It makes a clanging noise that sounds like the thing is going to blow up - almost like the timing is too far advanced but I have not touched the timing. It also makes a whirring or whining noise as well that must be related to the torque converter.

I had the valve clearance checked and the oil has been changed lots. The whirring noise was always there, but i don't remeber the clanging, but I have not driven it in a while. A mechanic I know thinks it is piston slap because it goes away when revved up a little or warmed up. If it was a rod or wrist pin issue I don't think it would go away.

Anyone else experiencing this?
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  #2  
Old 01-08-2008, 06:33 PM
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Default 2003 650 Rincon Engine noises

How many miles / hrs does this machine have on it ? From what you said the noise totally goes away after it is warmed up. Is that true ? How cold of temps are you in when you are starting it ?

My Rincon has tranny noice "whining" when it is cold (below freezing) until the tranny fluid warms up.
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  #3  
Old 01-13-2008, 07:53 PM
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Default 2003 650 Rincon Engine noises

It has about 5000km on it, and I'm running it in Nova Scotia so it is being used in a range of temperatures, down to about -20 C. in the worst case. I have the same whining noise
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  #4  
Old 01-13-2008, 08:54 PM
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Default 2003 650 Rincon Engine noises

The sound you are hearing that your mechanic friend termed of as piston slap is most likely the timing chain slapping. Possably a bad cam chain tensioner. Spec on the throttle position sensor at idle is .580 to .620 ohms. The Rincon has the timing mapped into the ECM for timing to be changed for start-up mode. Once the ECM sees a rise in RPM, it will change the timing and the slapping sound will go away. All I can suggest to minimize the noise is to set the throttle position sensor at .620 once the engine idle rpm is near 1300 RPM. I also suggest pulling the cam chain tensioner and check if there is a tooth chipped on the ratcheting adjuster. Also, initialize the unit so the ECM sees the range of the throttle position sensor.
The chiming howl when cold is coming from the torque converter. When the torque converter is pulled off and the assembly is seperated from the gear/sleeve assembly that drives the front clutch, there are 2 large cage needle bearings on the gear/sleve assembly. These to needle bearing cages are rubbing against each other. When the cages are stamped for the bearings, on the outside edge of the cage there is some expansion and these surfaces together will chime when the unit is cold. To put this in more of a perspective, lets say you have 2 bear cans (signifying the roller bearings) Stack one can on top of the other and turn them in opposite directions back and forth. The stamping expansion I speak of on the roller bearings, would be on the top end of the one bear can and the bottom of the other. If they were rippled on this lip of the cans, they would really chatter. Same with the needle bearing cages beside each other on the inside of the torque converter.
Some cures... simply use 0w-30 oil. If the sound is still present, you could go through the expense of replacing the torque converter, as these needle bearings are not available seperate from the assembly. If it really is anoying, you can remove the front engine cover, torque converter and seperate the assembly. Remove the bearings and wet sand the edges of the cages, clean them real well and reassemble the items removed

hope this helps

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  #5  
Old 01-14-2008, 08:29 PM
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Default 2003 650 Rincon Engine noises

Thanks Dude

I'll start with the Cam chain tensioner

PS - Just curious - your handle -Registered Honda Pro Wrench Red Level- are you actually a Honda mechanic?

thanks again
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  #6  
Old 01-15-2008, 02:32 PM
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Default 2003 650 Rincon Engine noises

Yes, Senior tech at Open Road Honda in Mandan ND
Red Level is the highest level of training that a Honda motorcycle tech can be awarded.

Our dealership

Sorry administrators, that is not an advertizing plug for our dealership.
I understand if the link must be removed.
Simply showing the Honda Powerhouse where I am employed

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  #7  
Old 01-17-2008, 11:24 PM
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Default 2003 650 Rincon Engine noises

Hey Gimpster

Can I easily remove the cam chain tensioner? I have the honda service manual and it indicates a special tool ( page 8-14), but I'm not sure if that is for an overhaul or required just to pull the tensioner off to have a look?

Tks
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  #8  
Old 01-18-2008, 01:03 AM
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Default 2003 650 Rincon Engine noises

Removing is just simple as unbolting the 2 outer flange bolts

Before unbolting I like to remove or loosen the cap on the end (8mm wrench)
Then remove the 2 mounting bolts

When installing, look inside the end where the cap was. There is a slot headed adjuster/tentioner inside. If you insert a small flat blade screwdriver it will retract the tentioner. Turn it and hold it so the tentioner end is short. Hold it without releasing and install the outer 2 bolts (snug them to the cylinder) then release the screwdriver.

You do not nead a special tool

The special tool turns the adjuster inside, then is pushed into slots of the housing so it will not release when installed. after the mounting bolts are tightened the tool is removed and the dealong cap installed. There is a new tool for holding them available. Co workers of mine who have used it say it works slick. I have a mini screwdriver with a shortened blade and handle so I can wind up the tentioner, hold the but of the screwdriver with my palm while installing the adjuster with one hand, allowing me to start the mounting bolts and snug them with my other hand. I have never used any of the special tools. I have used this small screwdriver of mine for 15 years or better. Some old dogs like me don't want new tricks.

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  #9  
Old 01-27-2008, 07:47 PM
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Default 2003 650 Rincon Engine noises

Good news - I took off the tensioner, dismantled and cleaned, reinstalled after bumping up the spring pressure (using my own special tool made out of a piece of coat-hanger) and the noise is gone - I think the tensioner was just stuck.

Gimpster, your help was great - thank you

If you ever make it to Nova Scotia, I'll buy the beer!!
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Old 01-27-2008, 07:47 PM
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06, 2003, 650, adjustment, chain, cover, engine, front, honda, noise, piston, removing, rincon, tensioner, timing, workhardplayhard



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