What I’d Like To See Honda Do
#11
09-19-2002, 08:55 PM
I wish Honda would put disk brakes on their ATVs. I know the Rincon has it on the rear, and that was a step in the right direction, but thay need them on the other atvs. I have owned a Honda 4x4 since 1990. ( 1990 300, and a 1999 450 ES )and I am sick of drum brakes. I know what you are going to say, " If you rode them around the farm and stayed out of the mud it would work fine." Of course, but who wants to do that!
#12
09-19-2002, 09:07 PM
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yamblaster98,
I was only listing fourstrokes in that list.
Honda has not even hinted at discontinuing the two strokes. In fact, they bumped the CR80 to an 85 for 2003 along with giving us redesigned 125s and 250s.
The entire industry knows that the end is near for the two strokes, but they wont give in until they have to.
All of the fourstrokes are a result from them getting ready for it though......LOL
Also....a little news on that front. Kawasaki and Suzuki are working together at building their own Hi-Po fourstrokes to compete with the CRF/YZF 250 and 450 models. Kind of funny really because just 6 months ago, they said that the road race bikes and the motocross bikes would not share parts. So......which one gets the engines??? LMAO!!
I was only listing fourstrokes in that list.
Honda has not even hinted at discontinuing the two strokes. In fact, they bumped the CR80 to an 85 for 2003 along with giving us redesigned 125s and 250s.
The entire industry knows that the end is near for the two strokes, but they wont give in until they have to.
All of the fourstrokes are a result from them getting ready for it though......LOL
Also....a little news on that front. Kawasaki and Suzuki are working together at building their own Hi-Po fourstrokes to compete with the CRF/YZF 250 and 450 models. Kind of funny really because just 6 months ago, they said that the road race bikes and the motocross bikes would not share parts. So......which one gets the engines??? LMAO!!
#13
09-19-2002, 11:35 PM
#14
09-20-2002, 10:33 PM
#15
09-20-2002, 11:12 PM
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I believe that both are fully capable of winning at MX and that has held true for the most part. The Pro racers who have stuck with the fourstrokes do well. Until someone knocks off the "punk" Carmichael though, I don't see any brand fourstroker getting the attention that it deserves.
Doug Henry, Nathan Ramsey, and Tim ferry have shown that it CAN be done.
I would love to see a few YZ450Fs and CRF450Rs on the podium at some of the races this supercross season.
Doug Henry, Nathan Ramsey, and Tim ferry have shown that it CAN be done.
I would love to see a few YZ450Fs and CRF450Rs on the podium at some of the races this supercross season.
#16
09-20-2002, 11:35 PM
#17
09-21-2002, 02:40 AM
I just read the 2 stroke bikes are in Hondas 10 year plan, so there will be 2 strokes produced for at least 10 more years. However Honda feels that by 2006 they will be able to make the CRF450 weigh in at 216lb the AMA weight limit and also at that point 4 strokes will have taken the dominant roll in the market. The R&D money is slated to be dropped in 05 or 06 for 2 stroke development. So I think you will see a CR500 thing going, you know BNG and that is all. Then when sales do not justify production sat good bye.
P.S. You guys can kick all you want as for me I am to dang old for that crap I will not even buy a dirt bike w/o the e-button.
P.S. You guys can kick all you want as for me I am to dang old for that crap I will not even buy a dirt bike w/o the e-button.
#18
09-21-2002, 09:53 AM
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KNOWSALOT,
As per your list, there are altogether fifteen different ATVs, eleven of which are utility machines. Of the remaining four ATVs, one is the 90, one is the 250EX and then there are the TWO pure sport bikes.
As far as the dirtbikes go, there are fourteen listed. Of those fourteen, five appear to be MX racers (I'm assuming all the CRF- models are MXers) and the rest are either youth model or adult model plain ol' fun dirt bikes. And, as you said, you didn't even include the two stroke MXers in your list.
Undoubtedly this formula ratio works for Honda economically, as well as other brands, but it sure would be nice to see them offer a few more sport ATVs to choose from. I've never heard of a "utility dirt bike", so it seems they offer sporty fun on two wheels in practically every conceivable motor size from 70cc up to 650cc. On the other hand, their sport ATVs are outnumbered approximately five to one. My bottom line, though, is that there are ten adult-sized four stroke sporty dirtbikes to just two sport ATVs, three if you include the Recon-based 250EX. And there are NO pure race ATVs.
Now, I'm not saying Honda alone is guilty of this, I'm just not familiar with everything everyone else is producing. Yamaha, to their credit, does offer four different sport ATVs: Blaster, Warrior, Banshee, and Raptor. Kawasaki will have three with the Mojave, KFX400, and the new KFX700.
All I'm saying is this...although I'm not currently in the market for a sport ATV, if I were, I'd be disappointed that there is so little to choose from as opposed to the available dirt bikes. Now, saying that, I am not implying that I expect manufacturers to produce as many ATVs as dirt bikes, that would be outlandish. But, how about just a few more sport ATVs to choose from instead of this huge flood of utility ATVs?
But, I am afraid I know the answer already...it's in the sales.
Anyway, on that 700cc+ EX up there, I'd make it a twin cylinder, by the way.
As far as the kick starter thing goes, here's my reasoning on that subject. For a pure racing machine, just one starter is enough. I would choose a light weight electric over a kick because of high compression, yadda, yadda, yadda... I don't feel that a backup starter would be necessary. Racing machines are usually very well maintained and for that reason alone the primary starter should be reliable enough. On the other hand, those of us who don't race are more apt to let things go unchecked. In other words, one day out on the trail two miles from home is when we will most likely discover that our electric starter or battery is headed for that bright light at the end of the tunnel. Then, we'd sure wish we had at the very least a kick start to smoke things off.
But, on the other hand I guess you could push start it, couldn't you?? Could you do that to the 250EX? I don't think you could on a machine that has a fully automatic tranny. Hmmmmm...
Guys, sorry I am so long winded. I don't post that much so I have to cover all basis when I do post...thanks for your time!
As per your list, there are altogether fifteen different ATVs, eleven of which are utility machines. Of the remaining four ATVs, one is the 90, one is the 250EX and then there are the TWO pure sport bikes.
As far as the dirtbikes go, there are fourteen listed. Of those fourteen, five appear to be MX racers (I'm assuming all the CRF- models are MXers) and the rest are either youth model or adult model plain ol' fun dirt bikes. And, as you said, you didn't even include the two stroke MXers in your list.
Undoubtedly this formula ratio works for Honda economically, as well as other brands, but it sure would be nice to see them offer a few more sport ATVs to choose from. I've never heard of a "utility dirt bike", so it seems they offer sporty fun on two wheels in practically every conceivable motor size from 70cc up to 650cc. On the other hand, their sport ATVs are outnumbered approximately five to one. My bottom line, though, is that there are ten adult-sized four stroke sporty dirtbikes to just two sport ATVs, three if you include the Recon-based 250EX. And there are NO pure race ATVs.
Now, I'm not saying Honda alone is guilty of this, I'm just not familiar with everything everyone else is producing. Yamaha, to their credit, does offer four different sport ATVs: Blaster, Warrior, Banshee, and Raptor. Kawasaki will have three with the Mojave, KFX400, and the new KFX700.
All I'm saying is this...although I'm not currently in the market for a sport ATV, if I were, I'd be disappointed that there is so little to choose from as opposed to the available dirt bikes. Now, saying that, I am not implying that I expect manufacturers to produce as many ATVs as dirt bikes, that would be outlandish. But, how about just a few more sport ATVs to choose from instead of this huge flood of utility ATVs?
But, I am afraid I know the answer already...it's in the sales.
Anyway, on that 700cc+ EX up there, I'd make it a twin cylinder, by the way.
As far as the kick starter thing goes, here's my reasoning on that subject. For a pure racing machine, just one starter is enough. I would choose a light weight electric over a kick because of high compression, yadda, yadda, yadda... I don't feel that a backup starter would be necessary. Racing machines are usually very well maintained and for that reason alone the primary starter should be reliable enough. On the other hand, those of us who don't race are more apt to let things go unchecked. In other words, one day out on the trail two miles from home is when we will most likely discover that our electric starter or battery is headed for that bright light at the end of the tunnel. Then, we'd sure wish we had at the very least a kick start to smoke things off.
But, on the other hand I guess you could push start it, couldn't you?? Could you do that to the 250EX? I don't think you could on a machine that has a fully automatic tranny. Hmmmmm...
Guys, sorry I am so long winded. I don't post that much so I have to cover all basis when I do post...thanks for your time!
#19
09-21-2002, 01:06 PM
OK my kids have and XR50 and TT-R90 plus each a 4 wheeler. I never have to go start the 4 wheelers b/c of the e-button.
the bikes on the other hand (and yes they are very easy to start) if they sit a while then there I go kicking my butt off of running along side pushing until it starts or I drop dam near dead.
Also I raced a CR500 in the woods for years one day I crashed and was hurt pretty bad I tried for all I was worth to kick the dam thing and just could not. Another racer stopped and started it for me at which point I limped to the pit. W/ the button I would not have had a problem, I know what you younger guys are saying though I thought the same thing but now I will take the extra weight.
Also the e-button has proven of great worth to most racers after a stall and to trail riders alike after a hard day of riding the last thing I want to do after stopping to B/S with other riders is stand up and kick, I love just hitting that button.
As for pure race quads well the Z400 was supposed to be a Quad Racer but the lawyers said it opened Suz up to to much liability b/c of some of the great people in the good ol USA so Honda will not build an all out racer, 1 the market is to small and 2 the liability to high.
the bikes on the other hand (and yes they are very easy to start) if they sit a while then there I go kicking my butt off of running along side pushing until it starts or I drop dam near dead.
Also I raced a CR500 in the woods for years one day I crashed and was hurt pretty bad I tried for all I was worth to kick the dam thing and just could not. Another racer stopped and started it for me at which point I limped to the pit. W/ the button I would not have had a problem, I know what you younger guys are saying though I thought the same thing but now I will take the extra weight.
Also the e-button has proven of great worth to most racers after a stall and to trail riders alike after a hard day of riding the last thing I want to do after stopping to B/S with other riders is stand up and kick, I love just hitting that button.
As for pure race quads well the Z400 was supposed to be a Quad Racer but the lawyers said it opened Suz up to to much liability b/c of some of the great people in the good ol USA so Honda will not build an all out racer, 1 the market is to small and 2 the liability to high.
#20
09-21-2002, 08:01 PM
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