First Dune trip with the new Lectron - Report Card
Apr 11, 2004 | 01:13 AM
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First Dune trip with the new Lectron - Report Card
After all that was said and done, fences were mended and money has been spent - A LOT of money [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
Dumont was going to be the first trip with the Lectron 46 strapped to the big red sled. Install was as advertised, and there wasn't too much cussing. The lectron is a pretty simple looking piece of equipment until you get real close and start studying it. Quite frankly, there are some things on this carb, that I've never seen before. I still don't know how some of the stuff works. While seemingly quite simple, the carb offers jet-less tuning - cool right........ once you figure the needle out and the power jet operation it all starts to make sense. Don't get me wrong..... this thing is still first-year-french for me. A BIG shout-out to Mario for turning the thing.... my first impressions of the carb went from JUNK to GEM. He was able to give me a quick tune which made the BigDaddy Mobile kind a scary. With a turn of a needle the sled went from SLOW to VERY QUICK. My mid and top seemed to be good, but the bottem waited for an eternity to get going, and as you know, races can often be won or lost in the first 50 feet. I still think that the bike needs to be tuned abit more, and I never did get into the carb a second time, but I'm sure once it's ripe it will be even more of a monster.
That's the good news..... now before you get your finger in a cramp..... let me explain.
Thumb Pull:
My TM45 had the WORST throttle pull ever known to man - so much so that I had to sell it. GREAT carb but for those of us who trail ride (LONG TRAIL RIDES!) it can be a bit much. This carb has a pretty smooth pull after you come off idle. The carb seems to be SUCKED shut until you get it off idle. For stand up trail riding this becomes very difficult to deal with. The carb is not the easiest to baby in the very slow, sticky and tight trails. Also, the new Moose thumb throttle housing is a thing of beauty, but VERY slippery against a gloved thumb. It got better with a little knurling of the thumb trigger, but still needs a little something.
Throttle Cable:
This is where the cussing started.... maybe one of THE WORST SET-UPS I've EVER SEEN!!!!!! Now in all fairness, Randy was out of the good cable, and I needed the CARB NOW! He went to some pretty great lenghts to get me set up. Hats off to Randy and his crew to put together a package for me. I WILL be needing the better cable ASAP Randy - thanks. This cable set up needs some serious work. We need to work with each other, to get ERIC and RANDY a cable the fits better on both ends and is smooth! Anyone in my area that knows somebody that does custom cables, I'll do the R&D and GIVE it to Randy and Eric. This NEEDS some work right now. Because of the cable mess, idle tends to stick, and the "suck-shut" thing changes and is never in the same place. I'm hoping that the nicer cable will fix some of this.
Carb performance up the hill:
Once it was tuned closer to my sled, this thing absolutely ROCKED! I went from getting passed by piped YFZ's to passing them by about a 1 1/2 - 2 bikes lengths. My sled NEVER made the front end light going up the hill mid to 3/4 up with the TM 45 - I'm just to big! I had to be careful not to pull on the bars at all or it would ride up!
The biggest problem (if you want to call it a problem) is that with my Lectron, I CAN'T rev and dumb like I used to. EVEN if I kiss the front bumper, the thing will put me on my back. Mario practically handed me a new +3 swing arm a couple of weeks ago, and I turned it down - WHAT a mistake! I'm going to have to do some different gearing so that I can control the sled's starts. It's king of like MR. TOAD'S wild ride, you just don't know what is going to happen. A couple of different people rode my bike this weekend and were very shocked. One person said that it's as strong if not stronger than his stage three. Other DS's (except Mario's of course) were VERY easly handled even though I gave up almost 150lbs to most.
Once I work a couple of "Fit & Finish" things out, and fine tune the puzzle, I think the smile will be there for quite some time.
Thanks for everything Mario - you da man!
Almost forgot, rode the Beast Mario calls a DS..... Kind of scary, but kind of fun. Wasn't running all that great according to Mario, but made me pucker all the same.
Thanks for helping me out Randy.... lets get to work on the cable. I'm sure that we can come up with the PERFECT SETUP.
Dumont was going to be the first trip with the Lectron 46 strapped to the big red sled. Install was as advertised, and there wasn't too much cussing. The lectron is a pretty simple looking piece of equipment until you get real close and start studying it. Quite frankly, there are some things on this carb, that I've never seen before. I still don't know how some of the stuff works. While seemingly quite simple, the carb offers jet-less tuning - cool right........ once you figure the needle out and the power jet operation it all starts to make sense. Don't get me wrong..... this thing is still first-year-french for me. A BIG shout-out to Mario for turning the thing.... my first impressions of the carb went from JUNK to GEM. He was able to give me a quick tune which made the BigDaddy Mobile kind a scary. With a turn of a needle the sled went from SLOW to VERY QUICK. My mid and top seemed to be good, but the bottem waited for an eternity to get going, and as you know, races can often be won or lost in the first 50 feet. I still think that the bike needs to be tuned abit more, and I never did get into the carb a second time, but I'm sure once it's ripe it will be even more of a monster.
That's the good news..... now before you get your finger in a cramp..... let me explain.
Thumb Pull:
My TM45 had the WORST throttle pull ever known to man - so much so that I had to sell it. GREAT carb but for those of us who trail ride (LONG TRAIL RIDES!) it can be a bit much. This carb has a pretty smooth pull after you come off idle. The carb seems to be SUCKED shut until you get it off idle. For stand up trail riding this becomes very difficult to deal with. The carb is not the easiest to baby in the very slow, sticky and tight trails. Also, the new Moose thumb throttle housing is a thing of beauty, but VERY slippery against a gloved thumb. It got better with a little knurling of the thumb trigger, but still needs a little something.
Throttle Cable:
This is where the cussing started.... maybe one of THE WORST SET-UPS I've EVER SEEN!!!!!! Now in all fairness, Randy was out of the good cable, and I needed the CARB NOW! He went to some pretty great lenghts to get me set up. Hats off to Randy and his crew to put together a package for me. I WILL be needing the better cable ASAP Randy - thanks. This cable set up needs some serious work. We need to work with each other, to get ERIC and RANDY a cable the fits better on both ends and is smooth! Anyone in my area that knows somebody that does custom cables, I'll do the R&D and GIVE it to Randy and Eric. This NEEDS some work right now. Because of the cable mess, idle tends to stick, and the "suck-shut" thing changes and is never in the same place. I'm hoping that the nicer cable will fix some of this.
Carb performance up the hill:
Once it was tuned closer to my sled, this thing absolutely ROCKED! I went from getting passed by piped YFZ's to passing them by about a 1 1/2 - 2 bikes lengths. My sled NEVER made the front end light going up the hill mid to 3/4 up with the TM 45 - I'm just to big! I had to be careful not to pull on the bars at all or it would ride up!
The biggest problem (if you want to call it a problem) is that with my Lectron, I CAN'T rev and dumb like I used to. EVEN if I kiss the front bumper, the thing will put me on my back. Mario practically handed me a new +3 swing arm a couple of weeks ago, and I turned it down - WHAT a mistake! I'm going to have to do some different gearing so that I can control the sled's starts. It's king of like MR. TOAD'S wild ride, you just don't know what is going to happen. A couple of different people rode my bike this weekend and were very shocked. One person said that it's as strong if not stronger than his stage three. Other DS's (except Mario's of course) were VERY easly handled even though I gave up almost 150lbs to most.
Once I work a couple of "Fit & Finish" things out, and fine tune the puzzle, I think the smile will be there for quite some time.
Thanks for everything Mario - you da man!
Almost forgot, rode the Beast Mario calls a DS..... Kind of scary, but kind of fun. Wasn't running all that great according to Mario, but made me pucker all the same.
Thanks for helping me out Randy.... lets get to work on the cable. I'm sure that we can come up with the PERFECT SETUP.
Apr 11, 2004 | 12:51 PM
#2
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First Dune trip with the new Lectron - Report Card
I love the way you give all the facts man, very respectable.
I've recieved several pm's lately from guys with TM45's, asking me info and opinions, and I know they're gonna be reading this post for more input from you and others who reply to this post.
What I see here is a carb that is not ready to go right outa the box as advertised, and whether or not its more complicated to tune than a traditional mikuni or kehein depends on the level of experience of the tuner.
The Lectron apparently has more throttle control issues than I peviously realized. I been aware of the slides sticking since these carbs first showed up on the forum, in both the standard models and the HV's, even though not all of you guys running them are willing to admit it publicly. But I didn't know there were cable issues on top of the need for the expensive thumb throttle housing as an alternantive to cutting up the stocker.
With my tm45 I use the stock DS throttle cable because it is superior to any aftermarket in smoothness, all I had to do was cut off the nut on the end with a grinder, and upon realizing this I threw the RWR cable in the trash. I'm sorry you had such stiff thumb throttle tension on your TM45, it is a very easy and free fix to make it easy as stock carb pull. I use tm45 with pumper and the throttle tension is just as easy if not easier than any bike in my group including hondas and yamahas, stock or aftermarket. And the slide bearing setup and throttle leverage linkage used in the tm45 makes it impossible to stick under any amount of vacuum or flow, this carb is super smooth on all trail riding and the pumper makes log and rut hopping a simple snap.
But as far as power goes, the opinions always have been and will always remain differing and contradictory. Looking at dyno results of the two, and listening to everybody's personal experiences, continue to leave question in that area, so I'll just leave that department alone!
What I am still waiting on however - the true answer to whether or not this carb is worth ME having - is the effects altitude have on it. Can you tune it for sea level, then go to 10K and have it still be at peak performance without retuning? I highly doubt it, but do not know. Its 35 seconds for me change my mikuni main jet - how long to tweek the rod on the lectron, if its even needed? And if it is needed, how much trial and error is required, as apposed to the simple math for mikuni main jet selection?
I know the Lectron is the right choice for some, I know it has advantages in some areas over the Mikuni, I'm just saying its a two way street with the Mikuni having advantages for some people too, that's all.
BigDaddy I don't mean to walk on you report, I'm sure you understand with all that has been going on lately in this area that alternate opinions are in order, its all for conversation's sake. I'm glad your thrilled with your new performance!![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
I've recieved several pm's lately from guys with TM45's, asking me info and opinions, and I know they're gonna be reading this post for more input from you and others who reply to this post.
What I see here is a carb that is not ready to go right outa the box as advertised, and whether or not its more complicated to tune than a traditional mikuni or kehein depends on the level of experience of the tuner.
The Lectron apparently has more throttle control issues than I peviously realized. I been aware of the slides sticking since these carbs first showed up on the forum, in both the standard models and the HV's, even though not all of you guys running them are willing to admit it publicly. But I didn't know there were cable issues on top of the need for the expensive thumb throttle housing as an alternantive to cutting up the stocker.
With my tm45 I use the stock DS throttle cable because it is superior to any aftermarket in smoothness, all I had to do was cut off the nut on the end with a grinder, and upon realizing this I threw the RWR cable in the trash. I'm sorry you had such stiff thumb throttle tension on your TM45, it is a very easy and free fix to make it easy as stock carb pull. I use tm45 with pumper and the throttle tension is just as easy if not easier than any bike in my group including hondas and yamahas, stock or aftermarket. And the slide bearing setup and throttle leverage linkage used in the tm45 makes it impossible to stick under any amount of vacuum or flow, this carb is super smooth on all trail riding and the pumper makes log and rut hopping a simple snap.
But as far as power goes, the opinions always have been and will always remain differing and contradictory. Looking at dyno results of the two, and listening to everybody's personal experiences, continue to leave question in that area, so I'll just leave that department alone!
What I am still waiting on however - the true answer to whether or not this carb is worth ME having - is the effects altitude have on it. Can you tune it for sea level, then go to 10K and have it still be at peak performance without retuning? I highly doubt it, but do not know. Its 35 seconds for me change my mikuni main jet - how long to tweek the rod on the lectron, if its even needed? And if it is needed, how much trial and error is required, as apposed to the simple math for mikuni main jet selection?
I know the Lectron is the right choice for some, I know it has advantages in some areas over the Mikuni, I'm just saying its a two way street with the Mikuni having advantages for some people too, that's all.
BigDaddy I don't mean to walk on you report, I'm sure you understand with all that has been going on lately in this area that alternate opinions are in order, its all for conversation's sake. I'm glad your thrilled with your new performance!![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Apr 11, 2004 | 01:36 PM
#3
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First Dune trip with the new Lectron - Report Card
As always Hightower, your opinions MATTER!!!!! You have helped many on this forum including myself, and your level head contributes to this forum more than you'll ever know. As far as the TM goes, it was a GREAT CARB. I had a thumb issue. I tried twisting springs, I tried different springs, new cables etc. etc. So hard that you could hear it in the cable housing.
I have had both with the exact same motor mods, and I will talk about the diffenence I experienced. First off, my TM was tuned on the dyno for MAX output. Skip spent more than 6 hours total on my sled, coming up with some pretty nice numbers. Numbers that started at 32 - 33hp stock (Skip's Dyno is very conservative, though is with in .2hp of they other Dyno that Mario and I have used) and went to 47hp after my mods. I will be dyno'ing the new carb VERY soon, however I can tell you that there is a pretty noticable difference between the two carbs. I'm less concerned with Peak HP in relation to HIGH RPM in that my bike doesn't run up the hill at 7K. I'm concerned with the 5500 area which is where I run in 3rd up Comp at Dumont. My thoughts are that the Lectron, properly tuned will beat the TM by a pony or two at the very top of the band. But below, my guess is that the Lectron will flat out chew the TM up in torque and HP. I say this becouse I've felt the difference. I'm racing the same exact Shee up the hill, and was being walked away from pretty easily. I am now completely even with a 350cc Shee with higher compression pistons. With a normal sized human on my bike, the SHEE is cooked. That is a difference that is not DYNO driven, but real world tested. I am now a believer in the LECTRON but am the FIRST to say it needs some fit and finish work on the cable system. I think that the nice cable that is offered will take care of most of the problems.
This carb just puts out a boat load of torque, if I had to guess, I would say it's in the 8 - 9 ft pounds area. Mario and I saw about a 10ft pound increase over MOST of the rpm band on the dyno when we compared the LECTRON 48 and the TM48. It's something that is more than the slight seat of the pants feel. It is VERY NOTICABLE! I'll have my Dyno numbers which are completely third-party.
Also comes to mind that the cable thing, is extremely installer-variable. There might be a couple of different ways to run the cable to make it act a little better. However there shouldn't be that much of a varibable in my opinion.
Also, when re-reading my post, I didn't give enough credit to Randy. They put a package together for me, when there really wasn't enough product. He really had to scare this one up. Eric deserves a big thanks for the work on this monster of a carb. I am a believer now!
While just my opinion, I thought you guys would like to know what my experience was knowing that I'll always be honest with you.
BigDaddy - OUT!
I have had both with the exact same motor mods, and I will talk about the diffenence I experienced. First off, my TM was tuned on the dyno for MAX output. Skip spent more than 6 hours total on my sled, coming up with some pretty nice numbers. Numbers that started at 32 - 33hp stock (Skip's Dyno is very conservative, though is with in .2hp of they other Dyno that Mario and I have used) and went to 47hp after my mods. I will be dyno'ing the new carb VERY soon, however I can tell you that there is a pretty noticable difference between the two carbs. I'm less concerned with Peak HP in relation to HIGH RPM in that my bike doesn't run up the hill at 7K. I'm concerned with the 5500 area which is where I run in 3rd up Comp at Dumont. My thoughts are that the Lectron, properly tuned will beat the TM by a pony or two at the very top of the band. But below, my guess is that the Lectron will flat out chew the TM up in torque and HP. I say this becouse I've felt the difference. I'm racing the same exact Shee up the hill, and was being walked away from pretty easily. I am now completely even with a 350cc Shee with higher compression pistons. With a normal sized human on my bike, the SHEE is cooked. That is a difference that is not DYNO driven, but real world tested. I am now a believer in the LECTRON but am the FIRST to say it needs some fit and finish work on the cable system. I think that the nice cable that is offered will take care of most of the problems.
This carb just puts out a boat load of torque, if I had to guess, I would say it's in the 8 - 9 ft pounds area. Mario and I saw about a 10ft pound increase over MOST of the rpm band on the dyno when we compared the LECTRON 48 and the TM48. It's something that is more than the slight seat of the pants feel. It is VERY NOTICABLE! I'll have my Dyno numbers which are completely third-party.
Also comes to mind that the cable thing, is extremely installer-variable. There might be a couple of different ways to run the cable to make it act a little better. However there shouldn't be that much of a varibable in my opinion.
Also, when re-reading my post, I didn't give enough credit to Randy. They put a package together for me, when there really wasn't enough product. He really had to scare this one up. Eric deserves a big thanks for the work on this monster of a carb. I am a believer now!
While just my opinion, I thought you guys would like to know what my experience was knowing that I'll always be honest with you.
BigDaddy - OUT!
Apr 11, 2004 | 03:32 PM
#4
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First Dune trip with the new Lectron - Report Card
Bigdaddy, At first you looked very upset, Thats why I was persistant about getting that dialed in right away to get that grin on your face.LOL. Thats what friends are for brotha!!! We need to go out to a paved road and tune further so you dont have to go spend more $$ on more dyno runs. I know you will dyno it, But Im sure we can get it very close before you dyno.
C-Dale-USA-(Tom Jones) It was great to finally meet ya out there, and great benchmark for bigdaddys DS, your bike is very clean and runs strong. BTW, your end cap is off the hook!!!LOL That might make a good drag tip also. (sharp looking too, probly good bottom end for trails also) Let me know where you guys are riding next , we will plan a trip.
Whsrdskn had the Raptor, and Eaglecollector (stage3+ish) was the one that rode your bike Mike. (Larry)
I am in the process of building a few 300ft Tracks and a knarly MX track, I cant wait to invite all of you guys down to start running some flat drags. We can do some tuning there also. ( should be done in a month or two )
The bottom line is that I hope everyone made it home safe for Easter. Now Im off to go help cook a few Lambs. (party of 70)
Happy Easter to all.
MIKE- I hope that guy on the banshee goes a bit easier on his kid next time, Yah, mine is stock too. hehehe
C-Dale-USA-(Tom Jones) It was great to finally meet ya out there, and great benchmark for bigdaddys DS, your bike is very clean and runs strong. BTW, your end cap is off the hook!!!LOL That might make a good drag tip also. (sharp looking too, probly good bottom end for trails also) Let me know where you guys are riding next , we will plan a trip.
Whsrdskn had the Raptor, and Eaglecollector (stage3+ish) was the one that rode your bike Mike. (Larry)
I am in the process of building a few 300ft Tracks and a knarly MX track, I cant wait to invite all of you guys down to start running some flat drags. We can do some tuning there also. ( should be done in a month or two )
The bottom line is that I hope everyone made it home safe for Easter. Now Im off to go help cook a few Lambs. (party of 70)
Happy Easter to all.
MIKE- I hope that guy on the banshee goes a bit easier on his kid next time, Yah, mine is stock too. hehehe
Apr 11, 2004 | 04:33 PM
#5
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First Dune trip with the new Lectron - Report Card
I don't quite understand the cable issue. Do they have a better one available but couldn't get one to you in time? You said "This cable set up needs some serious work. We need to work with each other, to get ERIC and RANDY a cable the fits better on both ends and is smooth! Anyone in my area that knows somebody that does custom cables, I'll do the R&D and GIVE it to Randy and Eric."
Apr 11, 2004 | 04:53 PM
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First Dune trip with the new Lectron - Report Card
I will check in to this tomorrow, I have both the carb and the thumb throttle so having a cable made will be easy. I will talk to Randal first because he might already be having some made.
Apr 11, 2004 | 09:24 PM
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First Dune trip with the new Lectron - Report Card
Originally posted by: ANNIHILATER
I am in the process of building a few 300ft Tracks and a knarly MX track, I cant wait to invite all of you guys down to start running some flat drags. We can do some tuning there also. ( should be done in a month or two
I am in the process of building a few 300ft Tracks and a knarly MX track, I cant wait to invite all of you guys down to start running some flat drags. We can do some tuning there also. ( should be done in a month or two
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Apr 11, 2004 | 11:14 PM
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First Dune trip with the new Lectron - Report Card
After a good 2 hours in the fabrication shop, the stock cable and the Moose throttle assembly are..... Well, a pure dream! Three simple steps make the throttle pull less than stock and maybe even a little less than my neighbors stock 400ex throttle. The stock cable is first rate and silky smoooooooth. I will be emailing all my picks to Eric and Randy tonight, and I hope that they like simplicity. The stock throttle housing will work, however the housing has to be notched completely through, leaving it exposed to the elements. I'll post a picture if I can figure it out. This works extremely well, and NO custom cables have to be fabbed. We'll that's not true. Your stock cable will be custom once done. However it is very easy to order a stock cable! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
Randy and Eric, If your watching this thread, check your email!
Now I need to figure the fine tuning out, and this will be one BAD A$$ set up! I think that this set up will be pretty "out of the box".
Hightower, as you know, with any carb there will be some tuning that needs to be done for each specific sled. If I would of had a couple of hours to tune before I hit the hill, things would have been much easier. Mario accomplished HUGE gains in ten minutes and one turn!
SixSixT - yes there is a better/prefered cable but they were completely out. But that is my fault due to the fact that I gave Randy NO TIME at all. I was lucky to get what I got. Truth be told, they have a tech there that doesn't have much of a bike left. Thanks to him for the throttle housing, cause it's one pretty piece of art.
Outstanding customer service.... I'm going to owe Randy a back brace, cause he broke it getting this order out. Thanks again!
Randy and Eric, If your watching this thread, check your email!
Now I need to figure the fine tuning out, and this will be one BAD A$$ set up! I think that this set up will be pretty "out of the box".
Hightower, as you know, with any carb there will be some tuning that needs to be done for each specific sled. If I would of had a couple of hours to tune before I hit the hill, things would have been much easier. Mario accomplished HUGE gains in ten minutes and one turn!
SixSixT - yes there is a better/prefered cable but they were completely out. But that is my fault due to the fact that I gave Randy NO TIME at all. I was lucky to get what I got. Truth be told, they have a tech there that doesn't have much of a bike left. Thanks to him for the throttle housing, cause it's one pretty piece of art.
Outstanding customer service.... I'm going to owe Randy a back brace, cause he broke it getting this order out. Thanks again!
Apr 12, 2004 | 12:12 AM
#9
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First Dune trip with the new Lectron - Report Card
I wonder if the "better" cable is as good as your modded stock one.
Does it return to idle better and have a better feel at lower throttle settings now that the cable is smoother.
Quote from Hightower "The Lectron apparently has more throttle control issues than I peviously realized. I been aware of the slides sticking since these carbs first showed up on the forum, in both the standard models and the HV's, even though not all of you guys running them are willing to admit it publicly.
The smoothest and fastest in supercross doesn't seem to have a problem with it.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
Does it return to idle better and have a better feel at lower throttle settings now that the cable is smoother.
Quote from Hightower "The Lectron apparently has more throttle control issues than I peviously realized. I been aware of the slides sticking since these carbs first showed up on the forum, in both the standard models and the HV's, even though not all of you guys running them are willing to admit it publicly.
The smoothest and fastest in supercross doesn't seem to have a problem with it.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
Apr 12, 2004 | 12:18 AM
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First Dune trip with the new Lectron - Report Card
Just completed an entire "How to" with pics and sent them to Randy and Eric. My email server is down here in Las Vegas, seems as though *** Cable is having a problem. They say it should be fixed in the next 12 hours.
the modified stock cable drops to idle perfectly, and opens MORE than all of the way. the slide actually goes a mil or 2 beyond the bore.
Action is the best I have ever felt. I'm not pulling your O-ring chain. It is better than my stock on the OEM setup. Randy and Eric will have the instructions and full color close-ups as soon as my email server is back up.
All smiles on this end!!!
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
the modified stock cable drops to idle perfectly, and opens MORE than all of the way. the slide actually goes a mil or 2 beyond the bore.
Action is the best I have ever felt. I'm not pulling your O-ring chain. It is better than my stock on the OEM setup. Randy and Eric will have the instructions and full color close-ups as soon as my email server is back up.
All smiles on this end!!!
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]