A Simple Primary Clutch Mod for P650/P700
May 5, 2004 | 09:33 AM
#1
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From: Texas
A Simple Primary Clutch Mod for P650/P700
I was under the impression that only Alltoys, Helix, Shotgun and other highly experienced mechanics/atv gurus could do clutch mods like lightening the primary clutch face plate. But then I got some ideas from KevinM (from Kawieiriders) and PrairieWrench and then I decided to try it myself.
Yesterday, I drilled 8 holes (1/2" diameter) into the primary clutch faceplate on my P650 to lighten it up and I'm happy to report that this mod went fast and smoothly. You can see pics of this mod as done on on KevinM's V-force at www.700v.com I'm told that this simple mod may result in about 300 rpms more at top-speed. I don't have a tach, so I can't confirm this.
I tested it out yesterday afternoon and I did NOT notice any seat of the pants improvement in performance. This seems consistent with what PrairieWrench and KevinM told me about their results with a modded faceplate. But I think it was PrairieWrench that reminded me that every little improvement counts, especially in racing!
As an alternative to drilling holes in your stock faceplate, you can buy and install an aftermarket (Dalton brand) faceplate that is made for the V-force, but the downside here is that the Kaw. engine brake control (KEBC) will no longer work on the P650/P700 if you do this (unless you can somehow press the KEBC bearing into the Dalton faceplate - but I'm not sure if this is possible???).
Happy trails...[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Yesterday, I drilled 8 holes (1/2" diameter) into the primary clutch faceplate on my P650 to lighten it up and I'm happy to report that this mod went fast and smoothly. You can see pics of this mod as done on on KevinM's V-force at www.700v.com I'm told that this simple mod may result in about 300 rpms more at top-speed. I don't have a tach, so I can't confirm this.
I tested it out yesterday afternoon and I did NOT notice any seat of the pants improvement in performance. This seems consistent with what PrairieWrench and KevinM told me about their results with a modded faceplate. But I think it was PrairieWrench that reminded me that every little improvement counts, especially in racing!
As an alternative to drilling holes in your stock faceplate, you can buy and install an aftermarket (Dalton brand) faceplate that is made for the V-force, but the downside here is that the Kaw. engine brake control (KEBC) will no longer work on the P650/P700 if you do this (unless you can somehow press the KEBC bearing into the Dalton faceplate - but I'm not sure if this is possible???).
Happy trails...[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
May 5, 2004 | 10:03 AM
#2
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A Simple Primary Clutch Mod for P650/P700
Hey Mike--I dont have a whole lotta time for surfin (I'm at work) but I couldnt find the pictures on www.700v.com of the drilled face plate?? I see the Dalton cover, but I am more interested in doing the homemade mod you performed--I can see it helping out quite a bit on the 360---any more info you might add??
May 5, 2004 | 10:20 AM
#4
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A Simple Primary Clutch Mod for P650/P700
Olemanmoses,
FYI: I recently e-mailed back and forth with KevinM about this mod (which he performed on his V-force), and he told me that he has had no problems with it whatsoever in the 4 or 5 months since he drilled the holes in his faceplate.
PS - I noticed in your sig that your DAJs don't work for you...did you try dropping 3 sizes on your main jet to see if that helps? I tried DAJs with stock size jets, then tried 2 sizes smaller, 3 sizes smaller and 4 sizes smaller before I figured out that my quad runs best with DAJs if I my main jets are 3 sizes smaller than stock. Remember that the carb must be lean enuf for the DAJs to work properly.
Happy trails...[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
FYI: I recently e-mailed back and forth with KevinM about this mod (which he performed on his V-force), and he told me that he has had no problems with it whatsoever in the 4 or 5 months since he drilled the holes in his faceplate.
PS - I noticed in your sig that your DAJs don't work for you...did you try dropping 3 sizes on your main jet to see if that helps? I tried DAJs with stock size jets, then tried 2 sizes smaller, 3 sizes smaller and 4 sizes smaller before I figured out that my quad runs best with DAJs if I my main jets are 3 sizes smaller than stock. Remember that the carb must be lean enuf for the DAJs to work properly.
Happy trails...[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
May 5, 2004 | 12:09 PM
#5
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A Simple Primary Clutch Mod for P650/P700
Mikey,
If your reving over your peak power point, you won't see much if any gain, hard to tell without a tach.
try this, there is a small hole already drilled in you clutch weights, go to a hardware store and buy 4 short metal screws that will fit tight in those holes. grind off anything that sticks out beyond the weights, makeing sure that the head of the screw is on the offset side of the weight. (you'll understand when you put them in, one way the head would stick out beyond and one way not.)
This will bring that 300 RPM back down, but now you are putting more pressure on the belt, forceing it up the clutch faster, which would mean more, faster, pickup.
If you see no difference simply take them back out or only take 2 out across from each other and try that. If you do, than talk to dale at Dalton about heavier weights.
Good Luck.
If your reving over your peak power point, you won't see much if any gain, hard to tell without a tach.
try this, there is a small hole already drilled in you clutch weights, go to a hardware store and buy 4 short metal screws that will fit tight in those holes. grind off anything that sticks out beyond the weights, makeing sure that the head of the screw is on the offset side of the weight. (you'll understand when you put them in, one way the head would stick out beyond and one way not.)
This will bring that 300 RPM back down, but now you are putting more pressure on the belt, forceing it up the clutch faster, which would mean more, faster, pickup.
If you see no difference simply take them back out or only take 2 out across from each other and try that. If you do, than talk to dale at Dalton about heavier weights.
Good Luck.
May 5, 2004 | 12:18 PM
#6
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A Simple Primary Clutch Mod for P650/P700
Shotgun,
Thanx for the suggestion...so is that a permanent or temporary mod (inserting screws in the weights to make them a little heavier)? In other words, is there any chance that the screws will work themselves out? Also, I was under the impression that I will need a wheel puller to get to the weights...is this true?
Happy trails...[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Thanx for the suggestion...so is that a permanent or temporary mod (inserting screws in the weights to make them a little heavier)? In other words, is there any chance that the screws will work themselves out? Also, I was under the impression that I will need a wheel puller to get to the weights...is this true?
Happy trails...[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
May 5, 2004 | 12:21 PM
#7
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A Simple Primary Clutch Mod for P650/P700
MikeyBoyesq,
By drilling your face plate you don't gain that much rpm you must also get rid of other weight on your clutch I have on previous posts given in detail how this was done. I was told by clutching " Experts " that it would not work since that time other members have tried this technique with excellent results. By reducing rotation mass along machining the sheaves has resulted in a 10 - 15 mph gain on top end. A 360 belt will ride to the top of the sheaves, a 700 belt will come within 1/8 inches from the top of the sheave. That is almost a half inch gain of usable sheave which helps for torque plus top end. This is very beneficial on drags or the all important hole shot. The idea is to load the clutch up as much as possible as soon as possible to reduce wheel spin but keep the torque curve at a controllable rate. When the clutch is lightened heavier weights, heavier springs can be used with a greater amount of flexibility to adapt to your situation with regard to mud bogging, dragging on pavement or grass, or just messing around.
To gain 300 rpm with the just face plate there will have to be some machining done as well as get rid of the EBC. Get rid of the EBC and you will gain a faster drag time plus more top end. You will still slow down as before until you drop down to idle speed where it will free wheel. V Force riders blip the throttle to keep the quad under control, you can too.
There is a little more to it than just drilling holes but as PW would say every little bit helps!!!!!!!
By drilling your face plate you don't gain that much rpm you must also get rid of other weight on your clutch I have on previous posts given in detail how this was done. I was told by clutching " Experts " that it would not work since that time other members have tried this technique with excellent results. By reducing rotation mass along machining the sheaves has resulted in a 10 - 15 mph gain on top end. A 360 belt will ride to the top of the sheaves, a 700 belt will come within 1/8 inches from the top of the sheave. That is almost a half inch gain of usable sheave which helps for torque plus top end. This is very beneficial on drags or the all important hole shot. The idea is to load the clutch up as much as possible as soon as possible to reduce wheel spin but keep the torque curve at a controllable rate. When the clutch is lightened heavier weights, heavier springs can be used with a greater amount of flexibility to adapt to your situation with regard to mud bogging, dragging on pavement or grass, or just messing around.
To gain 300 rpm with the just face plate there will have to be some machining done as well as get rid of the EBC. Get rid of the EBC and you will gain a faster drag time plus more top end. You will still slow down as before until you drop down to idle speed where it will free wheel. V Force riders blip the throttle to keep the quad under control, you can too.
There is a little more to it than just drilling holes but as PW would say every little bit helps!!!!!!!
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May 5, 2004 | 12:52 PM
#8
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From: Texas
A Simple Primary Clutch Mod for P650/P700
Alltoys,
I guess I was just hoping to do a simple mod to lighten the primary clutch at home without special tools or skill. I'm just a weekend warrior and I have no intentions of milling the clutch sheaves or faceplate...I just don't know enuf about this stuff to do it right nor do I have the equipment. Nevertheless, thanx for the explanation/insight.
Happy trails...[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
I guess I was just hoping to do a simple mod to lighten the primary clutch at home without special tools or skill. I'm just a weekend warrior and I have no intentions of milling the clutch sheaves or faceplate...I just don't know enuf about this stuff to do it right nor do I have the equipment. Nevertheless, thanx for the explanation/insight.
Happy trails...[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
May 5, 2004 | 06:05 PM
#9
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A Simple Primary Clutch Mod for P650/P700
Mikey;
I think I started the 300 more RPM thing, when I posted about the face plate back a year or so. I also had drilled my spider and removed the cooling fins in the rear of the clutch at that time, so the 300 rpm's might not be right for your machine, but what was gained on mine and a V-force that was racing in the Texas races last year.
The screws are just a way to test to see if heavier clutch weights will help. You could make them permanate by using lock tite, but I would suggest getting heavier weights if the screws work for you. I would suggest getting them from Dalton if you do because they have the same curve.
You don't need a puller to change weights, but it is easier that way.
Just take belt off, take off face plate and the clutch will open up. use two 10mm sockets.
PS, you could drill 8 more holes in the bottom corners of where you just drilled the 8 other holes, also holes in the spider will lighten it some more.
Good luck. On Wildwill pic page is a pic of Alltoys clutch you can see the holes in face plate and spider.
I think I started the 300 more RPM thing, when I posted about the face plate back a year or so. I also had drilled my spider and removed the cooling fins in the rear of the clutch at that time, so the 300 rpm's might not be right for your machine, but what was gained on mine and a V-force that was racing in the Texas races last year.
The screws are just a way to test to see if heavier clutch weights will help. You could make them permanate by using lock tite, but I would suggest getting heavier weights if the screws work for you. I would suggest getting them from Dalton if you do because they have the same curve.
You don't need a puller to change weights, but it is easier that way.
Just take belt off, take off face plate and the clutch will open up. use two 10mm sockets.
PS, you could drill 8 more holes in the bottom corners of where you just drilled the 8 other holes, also holes in the spider will lighten it some more.
Good luck. On Wildwill pic page is a pic of Alltoys clutch you can see the holes in face plate and spider.
May 5, 2004 | 07:06 PM
#10
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A Simple Primary Clutch Mod for P650/P700
In regards to drilling the faceplate and spider, this sound like a good idea but lets think about this a minute. By drilling these out your are saving weight but at what cost. By drilling out these components you are also throughing the clutch out of balance and also making it less ridged. And if you want to get the power to ground this is an area you would want to avoid. Try gaining rpm, in stalling a stiffer spring or a different set of weights. A dalton cover will help make the clutch more ridged and help cooling. I would recomend this. More info later.