In a way, I have to say the answer is that they would still win with a race-ready T4 or R. Just a few years ago they were winning on 2 strokers based on 250R's. Now if they would have a harder time winning, I don't know but I don't think so.

Yes, most of it is the rider and then the machine makes up the rest. HOWEVER, do you think these new 450's are set up such that the 2 stroke racers of just a few years ago that these same guys were riding would put them at a competitve disadvantage today? I can't see why or how. What do you all think? If Gust or Farr or any of the top guys decided to set up a T4, for example, with the same stuff they use on their current rides, do you think there would be a noticeable drop in rider performance? Are riders pulling in faster times on equal tracks than say 10-15 years ago?

Back Drop Story of this question: My friend who works at a dealer was touting a YFZ that I was checking out. He knows I have a T4 and an R. He says "There, finally a quad that'll eat up the old 2 strokes". I scoffed and corrected him saying "well, I wouldnt say EAT UP. I'd say ...more than a match or equal". He then used the logic that these new ones are a lot better than the old ones because they're what the racers are using. I said they're using because they're what's available and they're what's marketed and that "quad politics" plays into it a little. They were practically forced to switch because the Powers That Be created the need to switch by setting the agenda. If the Big Four decided to develop and market brand state-of-the-art two strokes again, the riders would use them.

 

Well i believe that the modded 250r's and tecate's are just about equal to todays yfz's,kfx/z,and 450r.One reason you don't see 2 strokes in the top pro levels anymore is because they banned them,so its all four stroke now.I remember a few years ago when the yfz was first released in the gncc races,that bill ballance was still beating the yfz's on his suzuki/lonestar 2 stroker.But there is some race out in california they have every year (can't think of the name),that greg stewart is still dominating all the new 4 strokes on his modded 250r.But it would be nice to see some new 2 strokes come out and i think there will be now,because bombardier has a new 2 stroke engine that supposibly burns cleaner than your typical 4 stroke.

 

I agree...of course.

And about that new clean-burning 2 stroke: I've heard that too...not just by Bombardier but by others too. I wonder why nothing's happened yet. Even watercraft and snowmobiles, which were ALWAYS 2 stroke, have 4 stroke models now. I have a feeling that R&D runs 4,5,6 years before production. All this investment in better 4 strokes is going to be reaped before they try anything new.

I wish we could get honest rider feeback from the pros about the 2 strokers they were using just a few years back vs. the new 4 strokers. One things for sure: You'd never get the answer out of them in public. They'll never undermine the people who sponsor their rides by saying "It was better the other way. sorry, yamaha, suzuki and honda, but I prefer the older 2 strokes that were forced to the sidelines over these new machines you're making us ride".

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

 

If Jeremiah Jones was still on a Laeger/Sparks 250r he would be a 5 time National Champion.

 

The pros are a hell of a lot faster than they were 5 years ago. Even the old 2 strokes have became significantly faster in 5 years. Yes the new 450's really are that fast also. After learning how to ride the 4 strokes effeciently, they are faster than the 2 strokes were. Another advantage to the 450 is track setup. I race TT is over the past 3 years tracks have progressively been setup slicker which gives the 4 strokes the advantage.

 

AlkyBurninX wrote:

"Another advantage to the 450 is track setup. I race TT is over the past 3 years tracks have progressively been setup slicker which gives the 4 strokes the advantage."

That sounds almost like a conspiracy to me.

It's one thing to prove that, if equally modded and equipped, the 4 strokers are faster than anything a 2 stroker can deliver. And that fact is disputable at best. HOWEVER, for the higher-ups in the ATVA and AMA to intentionally set up tracks to favor 4 strokes is kinda disingenuous and dishonest. Because if they're doing this to give the appearance of Thumper Superiority and silence critics, it's pretty sneaky.

I mean, what did they say?..."Hey, let's set up these tracks to help the 4 strokes win so people will shut up and stop complaining about the withdrawl of 2 strokes. We need to silence all dissent".

 

I'd have to say they would be racing with a huge disadvantage....would they still win


YAH those guys are bad!!(thats the good bad)

Look at Carmicheal he wins on an RMZ
Look at Stewart getting smoked and wimping out of races on that 2stroke

BRAAAAAP

 

RacinJason,

that's just the point I'm trying to get at. You say they'd be at a huge disadvantage on a 2 stroke. why? Are you trying to say that the power in the 2 stroke would slow them down? I just don't see it. explain...

 

I see no real advantage of riding a 4 stroke at the professional level. The fact is that on a 2 stroke you do have to shift more frequently and you have to use the clutch a lot more to stay in the powerband- making riding it more complicated, but if you are a pro that should be no problem at all. Now for the "weekend racer" who doesn't have god given racing talents, and who can't shift as efficiently on a 2 stroke as he can on a 4, than the new 450s offer a huge advantage.

 

I think the real answer to this question lies within laptimes. All you would have to do is compare lap times from a few years ago, before Farr and Gust and Ellis and everyone else began putting 4-stroke bike engines in aftermarket chassis, when they were still riding on R engines. There might be some discrepancies here, but it would be easier than actually getting some pros to take laps on their current race quads, and then hop on an R and take laps on the outdated versions.