WOW I cauight this on the ON DUNES Forum
Oct 10, 2006 | 12:49 AM
#1
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WOW I cauight this on the ON DUNES Forum
I was just skimming through the ON Dunes Forum and caight this written thread from Mr Horsepower:10/06/2006
I made 77hp on gas 1 week before the Aledo race that got rained out in late '04. This is the Genisis motor combo that later won Four Stroke Wars stock bore class in Jan. '05. We then put it on Alcohol and 17% nitro for the Planet Sand '05 race. Although the acceleration rate of the engine increased greatly it did not make any more peak hp, but yes it did make 77hp on alky/nitro.
Is this the funny fuel you are talking about?
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Look im not trying to start any chit, but I thought that the Genisis motor was claimed to make all its HP on plain gas? and didnt make any more HP on Funny Fuel Nitro?
I have been reading threads on this forum now for some time, I do know that running Alcohol and Nitro increase HP, Heck even DSnut was claiming that switching to HPR4 cams made an extra 20 HP over 109s with the same funny fuel?
Well heck then that means a good ported head larger valves and a stock bore DS with a Hi Comp Piston with a some good cams with the same fuel should do the same? or was MR HPR cheaten on specs?? Just asking??
I made 77hp on gas 1 week before the Aledo race that got rained out in late '04. This is the Genisis motor combo that later won Four Stroke Wars stock bore class in Jan. '05. We then put it on Alcohol and 17% nitro for the Planet Sand '05 race. Although the acceleration rate of the engine increased greatly it did not make any more peak hp, but yes it did make 77hp on alky/nitro.
Is this the funny fuel you are talking about?
Powered by HPR
Look im not trying to start any chit, but I thought that the Genisis motor was claimed to make all its HP on plain gas? and didnt make any more HP on Funny Fuel Nitro?
I have been reading threads on this forum now for some time, I do know that running Alcohol and Nitro increase HP, Heck even DSnut was claiming that switching to HPR4 cams made an extra 20 HP over 109s with the same funny fuel?
Well heck then that means a good ported head larger valves and a stock bore DS with a Hi Comp Piston with a some good cams with the same fuel should do the same? or was MR HPR cheaten on specs?? Just asking??
Oct 10, 2006 | 12:59 AM
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WOW I cauight this on the ON DUNES Forum
Originally posted by: MrMeaner
Isnt that what he said in the first line?
Isnt that what he said in the first line?
Oct 10, 2006 | 01:21 AM
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WOW I cauight this on the ON DUNES Forum
Your sincereity is like aportajon full of crap!! You say not trying to start any chit yet you are confronting him in person?? You seem to leave out the rest of his posts, and the greater details of varification he spoke of!! But not trying to start some chit?? You know he does not post on here anymore but yet you still post in attack of his integretity!! Lost all faith in you!! Sure others will too!! If you are truly concerned and not stirring the pot you are going about it way wrong!!
Oct 10, 2006 | 01:32 AM
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WOW I cauight this on the ON DUNES Forum
[quote]
Originally posted by: cloftis
Your sincereity is like aportajon full of crap!! You say not trying to start any chit yet you are confronting him in person?? You seem to leave out the rest of his posts, and the greater details of varification he spoke of!! But not trying to start some chit?? You know he does not post on here anymore but yet you still post in attack of his integretity!! Lost all faith in you!! Sure others will too!! If you are truly concerned and not stirring the pot you are going about it way wrong!!
Full of crap? explains my brown eyes, and no I didnt know he dosent post on here anymore, Integretity is earned through honesty and Steadfast adherence to a strict moral or ethical code and of being unimpaired.
Also Im not or never asked anyone to put there faith in me, I am just average joe who does his research on products and builders.
Originally posted by: cloftis
Your sincereity is like aportajon full of crap!! You say not trying to start any chit yet you are confronting him in person?? You seem to leave out the rest of his posts, and the greater details of varification he spoke of!! But not trying to start some chit?? You know he does not post on here anymore but yet you still post in attack of his integretity!! Lost all faith in you!! Sure others will too!! If you are truly concerned and not stirring the pot you are going about it way wrong!!
Full of crap? explains my brown eyes, and no I didnt know he dosent post on here anymore, Integretity is earned through honesty and Steadfast adherence to a strict moral or ethical code and of being unimpaired.
Also Im not or never asked anyone to put there faith in me, I am just average joe who does his research on products and builders.
Oct 10, 2006 | 01:57 AM
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THAT!!!!!Sounds down right sexy!
THAT!!!!!Sounds down right sexy!
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WOW I cauight this on the ON DUNES Forum
Frist i do not realy know any of you that great!!!And do not know of any anamosity toward mrhp from ErbeDs650 But his question is valid.For mr hp to claim 77 on gas and no increase on nitro and alchol i say poopycock someones lieing.Now granted i did not read the rest of his post but right now from what i have seen im saying poopycock!!!!!!!!! And cloftis who are you and were dose your attitude come from [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img] dose mr erbeds650 pick on you in the blinds. Is this hostility im sensing???
this is an open forum if mrhp dose not like what he see's here he can stay on his own private little forum.And no one picks on mrhp there but out here we all get called to the carpet some can handle it some can't its all just a past time get over it or aleast get out of the way so a topic can be discused openly[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
this is an open forum if mrhp dose not like what he see's here he can stay on his own private little forum.And no one picks on mrhp there but out here we all get called to the carpet some can handle it some can't its all just a past time get over it or aleast get out of the way so a topic can be discused openly[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
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Oct 10, 2006 | 02:52 AM
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WOW I cauight this on the ON DUNES Forum
Does anyone know anything about what NM does to torque................?
ERBE - NM changes torque, not horsepower. Horsepower on NM is still dependent on doing the right things to build rpm and hold out the torque curve. I can tell you right now that a motor that is setup to spin high and hold a flat torque curve producing high hp on Gas will not be the optimal setup for high hp on NM.
Look, I understand that a couple of you guys look for any way you can to discredit HPR......that is all this thread is about anyway. You don't actually plan to run NM, ERBE...........you could never bring yourself to pay the $50 per gallon!!! At minimum though, lets get a little educated on Nitromethane.
NM is a very slow burning fuel that is d@mn near impossible to ignite. It requires very high temperature to combust which usually means high compression and an igniter (a mix of alky), although nitro motors run pretty cool. It burns so slowly that conventional wisdom states that you should run more spark advance the more NM you mix into the alky.
Lets take that Genesis motor that made 77hp on Gas and 77hp on Alky/NM. The NM, once it ignites makes a much more powerful explosion than other fuels. It pushes down on the piston much harder than other fuels which makes more torque. Unfortunately as i have learned, there is a broad section of gains or losses by going from a very wrong component to a very right one for what you are doing. It is like the cams that ERBE loves to talk about. I saw the NM bike go from around 60hp to around 80hp because it went from running the worst possible nitro cams (109's) to a phenominal nitro cam (HR4's). This genesis motor was making big torque but with its Gas oriented cams, valve size, porting and advance, the torque would have fallen off early causing peak hp numbers to fall off early. It was purely coincidence that they ended up at the same peak hp because i can guaranty their curves looked very different.
All that early torque would definitely cause the motor to spin up much quicker though because whatever load a motor is put under seems lighter to an engine with more torque.
AZ - I am a little disappointed that you chose to just jump on the bandwagon instead of taking the time to teach a little about NM.
BTW, all you have to do with any motor is hold out the torque curve and build the motor to turn big rpm as reliably as possible. That is what makes it possible to turn such high hp numbers. Even power adders like turbo or NOS won't help a motor that signs off at 8000 rpm to keep up with a motor that hits close to peak hp by 7500 rpm then holds that flat line to 10,000 rpm N/A. 77 hp just doesn't seem as impressive after the numbers I saw from this new Genesis motor.
ERBE - NM changes torque, not horsepower. Horsepower on NM is still dependent on doing the right things to build rpm and hold out the torque curve. I can tell you right now that a motor that is setup to spin high and hold a flat torque curve producing high hp on Gas will not be the optimal setup for high hp on NM.
Look, I understand that a couple of you guys look for any way you can to discredit HPR......that is all this thread is about anyway. You don't actually plan to run NM, ERBE...........you could never bring yourself to pay the $50 per gallon!!! At minimum though, lets get a little educated on Nitromethane.
NM is a very slow burning fuel that is d@mn near impossible to ignite. It requires very high temperature to combust which usually means high compression and an igniter (a mix of alky), although nitro motors run pretty cool. It burns so slowly that conventional wisdom states that you should run more spark advance the more NM you mix into the alky.
Lets take that Genesis motor that made 77hp on Gas and 77hp on Alky/NM. The NM, once it ignites makes a much more powerful explosion than other fuels. It pushes down on the piston much harder than other fuels which makes more torque. Unfortunately as i have learned, there is a broad section of gains or losses by going from a very wrong component to a very right one for what you are doing. It is like the cams that ERBE loves to talk about. I saw the NM bike go from around 60hp to around 80hp because it went from running the worst possible nitro cams (109's) to a phenominal nitro cam (HR4's). This genesis motor was making big torque but with its Gas oriented cams, valve size, porting and advance, the torque would have fallen off early causing peak hp numbers to fall off early. It was purely coincidence that they ended up at the same peak hp because i can guaranty their curves looked very different.
All that early torque would definitely cause the motor to spin up much quicker though because whatever load a motor is put under seems lighter to an engine with more torque.
AZ - I am a little disappointed that you chose to just jump on the bandwagon instead of taking the time to teach a little about NM.
BTW, all you have to do with any motor is hold out the torque curve and build the motor to turn big rpm as reliably as possible. That is what makes it possible to turn such high hp numbers. Even power adders like turbo or NOS won't help a motor that signs off at 8000 rpm to keep up with a motor that hits close to peak hp by 7500 rpm then holds that flat line to 10,000 rpm N/A. 77 hp just doesn't seem as impressive after the numbers I saw from this new Genesis motor.
