This will seem like a really dumb question, but im going to ask it anyway.

Which one has more power. To pull, out on the trail, faster top speed, reliability, etc... I know all the details about each of these machines. I know about how great the transmission on the Rubi and i know the Rubi has 25 extra CC's.. BUT, it seems like on an automatic Honda that you wouldnt be able to feel the power as well as a Manual Honda. And remember, im speeking without expierence on these 2 machines. So please help me out. I would definatly be willing to spend an extra $500 for the Rubi if its worth it.

The only thing thats making me lean towards the 500 ES is because i've ridden/grew up on the Foreman 450 ES and i LOVE them. The way they sound and feel is great. And to me, it seems as if i wouldnt like the silent, buttery smooth gears on the Rubi as i would the CLUNK feel when you shift the 500 ES .. It sounds stupid, i know. But for some reason, even though i havnt ridden the Rubi, it seems that the ES would have the power advantage because you can "feel" the power a little bit better. I dont know. Someone put me into my place and talk some sense in to me. Which one would be better for me? I will be mudding a bit, trail riding alot, and a fair amount of water. Would i have to worry about the transmission on the Rubi in the water?

Thanks for all replys. I will be buying for Christmas. =]

 

i have never owned a rubi, but i preffer the foreman b/c of the simplicity of the machine. it is air cooled, manual tranny. there are less things that can tear up, especially in water. the foreman also has an ultra low first gear for bigger mud tires, and also helps in pulling.that being said i heard the rubicon tranny is second to none, just cost an arm and three legs if broken. as far as the mud i say foreman, and for the trails id say rube!!

 

Yup, in days im sure this thread will see lots of responce, it truley is rider preferance... I love my rubicon, its like the tranny can read my mind!

 

A tough decision for different reasons. good luck.

c.a.r.b. ratings
Rubicon 33.4 hp
Foreman 26.9 hp

Rubicon 600lbs
Foreman 597lbs
the Rubicon has alloys, but they have the same chassis. Not sure how much weight the alloys save, but the overall weights are too close for me to say one has an advantage.

I have little doubt (but have not been able to line them up yet) that the Rubicon will accelerate faster than a Foreman, probably in more than one mode too. The Rubicon transmission is the best transmission available for control too. The shifts are so smooth, they just don't feel as powerful (you didn't let off, right?). But there is no disengagement of power (clutching) or letting off the throttle like the semi-auto. The more I ride it, the more I appreciate it. Another thing I don't know is top speeds of the two. I don't think my 04 will do a true 60 on flat ground.

The Foreman is simple. I think the myth that air cooled engines are more reliable is just that. Yes there is less to break and they are easier to repair, but I've observed that liquid cooled engines in general typically last longer. When you add ES to the Foreman, you have nearly as much to have a problem with as the Hondamatic. With the exception of a total failure of the Hondamatic, I do not see the ES manual (or semi-auto) as much of a maintenance/repair advantage as I once did. I really don't notice whether there are more posts about ES or Hondamatic, maybe one does have more issues? Reverse ritual for the Foreman isn't my idea of simple either.

My 04 rides stiff. When I upgrade I face the same decision you have now (I'm even looking at the Rincon because of its ride). If I could get the adjustable CTE shocks on the Rubicon or if the Rincon had the hydraulic 5 speed - the only reason I would buy the Foreman (foot shift) would be for simplicity and less potential for problems. The money would not be a factor.

 

I see each one of your points. And from your points, i've gathered that the Rubicon has about 5.5 more horsepower than the Foreman 500, the Foreman is better in Mud/Water??? The Rubicon is more of a trail machine? The Rubicon is faster. The Foreman will have less problems?

So far, this is what im starting to see. Im starting to fall in love just thinking about the mouthwatering options the Rubicon's tranny has though. I mean, im going to get the Foreman ES 500 or the Rubicon 500, and the Rubicon has ES PLUS much much more. And PropNut, what did you mean when you said (you didn't let off right?" Were you talking about the ES?? Because i had a Rancher ES and i still ride my uncle's and cousins Foreman 450 ES and i think electric shift is the best thing thats happened to ATV's.. I absolutely love it. My ONLY worry is if i'll love it on the Rubicon as much as i do on the Foreman since there is no sound or CLUNK feel when you shift the Rubi... HOPEFULLY i'm wrong and i'll like the Rubicon's ESP just fine.

2 more question's though. First, which would handle 26inch tires better? (I plan on purchasing 26inch ITP Terracross tires on ITP Type 7 Machined rims when i buy the ATV).. I know 26inch tires are just one step up above stock size so that might not be a big deal.

The other question is, is the Low Gear on the Rubicon's automatic mode (D1/D2) LOW enough to pull or haul things??

Thanks, and please keep the responses coming. Buying a new ATV is one of the greatest/funnest things to do, and the time to do it dosent come around often so i want to buy what will be best for me. =]

 

by the way, i got kindof side tracked... YES i do let off when i shift in ESP, i shift up then let off, then shift up again. Same thing on the way down lol.

 

I have a 500 Foreman, my GF's dad just picked up a Rubicon, and my other riding buddy has a Rincon.

The Foreman and Rubicon feel about the same, power wise, and ride wise. Yes, the Rubicon will pull/haul things just fine in low. The Foreman's 1st gear is also quite low and will pull/haul things just fine.

For me, choosing between the two would be a matter of personal preference. If you like to shift gears (buttons or foot) get the Foreman. If you prefer an automatic, then get the Rubicon.

While the riding experience of the Foreman and Rubicon are similar in most every way except the transmission, the Rincon is all together different. The Rincon has better low end grunt than either machine, and it compared to the SRA Foreman or Rubicon it glides over rough rocks and roots. It's easy to go way faster than you think you are going on rough stuff with the Rincon. Lots of rocks also seem to fall into the height range that the Rincon's extra ground clearance will clear where the other two will scrape.

On the downside, to me my bike feels a bit more planted sliding or on fast sweepers than the Rincon- not bad, but I just feel the need to lean my body more on the Rincon. Also, on steep decents where my bike (or a Rubicon) would do 1-2 mph in 1st w/o using the brakes, the Rincon would hit about 7 or 8. Again, it's not a big deal but expect to need to use the brakes in those technical steep downhill sections.

Of these three, pick the one you like best, and I'm sure you will be happy. Personally, my next machine will be IRS.

 

yes, the data shows more than 20%hp advantage to the Rubicon.

I cannot say which is better in the mud. However, if you have to shift, I think the Rubicon has the advantage as you do not have to let off and you do not decouple the engine/transmission during a change of ratios. I can say that if you leave it in one of the D modes there is a danger of bogging as if you let off the throttle, it may shift up on you and it may be enough to stop your momentum (I think this is something that KMDad was complaining about in an earlier post, it happened to me this weekend). If you go in using ESP you have a better chance of keeping engine RPM where you want. This does not mean D mode won't work, but if you let off the throttle you will give the transmission a signal to shift up.

I have 26s now and next time they will be 25s. Terracross looks like a decent tire, with (I think) the same carcass as the Wetlands. While they are better all around than the stock tires, when I corner hard I think the 26s roll over too much for my taste. I do not think the extra inch is worth the handling trade off.

I do not know what ratio is lower, Foreman 1st or Rubicon Low range 1st, but 99.9% of the time I run out of traction before power. I log a bit with my ATV and use low all the time. I shift often (once the log is moving).

 

Yeah, it would make sense that the Rubicon makes more power, as it's a 4 valve engine where the Foreman is 2.

I was just saying that by seat of the pants they seem pretty similar power wise. I wonder if the hydrostat transmission on the Rubi looses a bit more power to heat than the geared transmission on the Foreman?

In any event, I don't think power would be a big factor in choosing between the two. Pick the one who's transmission you like best, or if you want the smooth ride if IRS, then go Rincon.

 

Jeffin, I hope you don't think I was arguing with you. 20% is not as great on one of these things as one would think. I would be surprised if the Rubicon walked away from a Foreman. I think it would be futile to argue which ute is faster.

The hydro(mechanical) is suppose to be as efficient at 1 to 1 as the manual (or so Honda claims) and lower efficiencies are needed for lower ratios (bleeds off efficiency for lower output speed). It's really not your typical hydraulic transmission.

I still do appreciate the simplicity of the foreman's semi-auto. I originally intended to get the Foreman. It was a tough choice for me when I bought, but my wife was more receptive to the idea if it had an automatic - so the Rubicon was the only thing that had an auto and a manual feature (albeit no clutch) and the price was right as the new Rubicons were due a month after I bought mine. I just wish I waited a year for the new chassis and features.