Ah...2-stroke or 4-stroke...2-stroke or 4-stroke...

I can't seem to get this question out of my mind! Maybe someone here can help me. Here's the background:

I've never rode either of them. My brother had a Xplorer 500, and I thought it was nice. At the time, I had a brand new Banshee so I didn't pay much attention to his, since I was busy trying to tear my arms out of their sockets. Anyway, the wife got pregnant and the Banshee had to go. *sigh*

Currently, I own a '91 CR250 that I picked up to kick around. It's a freakin rush to ride, but the wife doesn't really like it. I just got back from my brothers place last weekend where I took my 2 year old son for a ride on his Big Bear. The kid loved it!!! (Thank God, he cries whenever I even try to start up the CR) It's important that he enjoyed it, since he's getting one next year like it or not! The craziest thing was that my wife liked zipping around on the quad too. Matter of fact, she wants us to get new ones for ourselves!!!

I have to take advantage of this quickly before she changes her mind, since 'they' always do. *grin* I can't decide which Scrambler to get. I read the only article online that I could find comparing the two, and it said that 500 is just about as fast bone stock. I've got to imagine that the 400 can be 'hopped up' alot more?

After the Banshee and CR, I'm a little tired of the moodiness some 2-strokes can have. I miss 4-strokes for their ease of use, quietness, etc... But I want the kick in the pants power of the 2-stroke, since that is really why I buy these toys to begin with.

I pretty much know the 'on paper' differences between the 400 and 500, but I was hoping for some input from people who really know. If the performance of each is very similar, I will probably opt for the 500. But if the 400 is just too fast, I gotta take the 2-stroke.

Can anyone help me? I'll take any experiences with either quad(stock or modified versions), but I'd prefer people who've tried both and relatively newer models.

Please help! I'm running out of time! If I don't get one soon, I'll be stuck with one-wheel drive! (CR250)

Thanks in advance, and sorry for babbling on...

PowerHungry

[This message has been edited by PowerHungry (edited 10-27-1999).]

 

My bud was trying to decide the same thing a couple of years back, so we went and test drove them both. This is before Polaris came out with the high out-put 500. The 400 rocked so hi pick up that one. The 500 since had some up grades and it is said to keep up with the 400. But, the 2 stroke will be easier to hop up. My bud put a dyno port pipe and silencer on and it is a whole new machine. The 400 is my next quad.

 

well, considering i never rode either of the machines, i probably know just as much about them as you, but i love replying to postings on here, its my favorite site i owned an LT250r up until last week. i sold it last week. by choice though. like you, i love 2 strokes also, never owned anything but. i love the snap they have. but as you say, they can be very tempermental at times. i am sick of playing around with plugs, having to go to the gas station with a 5 gallon jug, mixing gas and oil, kicking the bloddy thing. fouling plugs when i wanted to take my girlfriend for long rides, and listening to her screaming when i told her "i have to do this to blow the carbon out every once in a while" haha! but none-the-less, i still love 2 strokes. so, i sold my lt with hopes of owning a 400 scrambler very soon. from what i read, they are awsome quads. i read nothing but good things about them. they are definitely easier to modify. i know RCR cylce has mods for them capable of producing 60hp+. when i went to the dealer, they told me the same thing. that with bolt on modifications, you can get 60hp+. i find that hard to believe. i would think you'd have to do some head work or something to get that out of it, but maybe not. i guess the 500 is supposed to be comparable when both are stock. but i just can't see getting the quickness, especially off the start from a 4 stroke. i know my mind is made up. and it is a few hundred $ cheaper then the 500. the way i look at it is where can you get a 2 stroke with elecetric start, reverse, and 4x4, and all for around 5,000. the oil injection will take care off fouling plugs. and my girlfriend will be able to ride it without me having to go through the aggravation of teaching her how to ride with the clutch. i can't wait to get mine. i am sure you will be happy with either one of them. good luck, and don't wait too long. women change their minds more then they change their underwear!

 

PowerHungry,

I think you'd be best off with the 400. Frankly, there isn't that much more maintainance to the 2-strokes than the 4 strokes. Just remember to fill the oil tank on occasion (it even has an idiot light to tell you when you are low). I never had a problem with it when it was bone stock.

Big Devil,

Oh yes, you can get over 70+ horsepower with these under-tuned motors. The potential is there, but at what cost? Well, you can start by giving it a top end job every year. Plus the motors are especially moody when hopped up, if you get the jetting wrong for the temperatures, look out! Still, I have yet to have a major problem with mine. I'm still on the stock bore, but I'm running a 12:1 Cool Head, 38mm Mikuni TMX, Delta V-Force reeds, K&N airfilter, and a RCR pipe. The only problem I've had was when I put the 38mm carb on it. I didn't set the oil injector pump just right and it started fouling plugs like crazy at low speed. I fixed the problem when I removed the oil injector and started pre mixing. It isn't as much of a problem as I thought. As I now have to use 92 octane gas (for the increased compression), it is a simple matter to just put 16 ounces of 2 stroke oil in with the 5 gallons of gas. I figure that the horsepower it makes is somewhere around 50-55. Mind you, this motor is unported and running a trail pipe (midrange). This is also a conservative estimate too. It has nearly enough power for me. I plan on getting a Weisco piston setup when I have it ported this year.

Hope this helps!

------------------
Mike Chero 97 Polaris Sport 400L/ 97 Polaris Trailblazer 250ES

<A HREF="http://users.penn.com/~hal9000/mikeetta.html">MIKE & CELESTE'S ATV PAGE </A>

 

Since you had a Banshee you know how quick they are. I have spoken to quite a few people who have either had both the 400 & Banshee or raced them against the modified 400 polaris & they said they could out drag the Banshee w/ the 400. Two peole even raced against modified Banshee's. You cant get much faster than that nor would I need to go faster than that. Mind you, the 400 wont handle, jump etc like a Banshee so the comparison ends there. Anyway, keep the 400 stock & you'll have no worries. If & when your wife gets tired of riding & it becomes your ride, modify the hell out of it & get ready to get your arms ripped off again. If you put just a pipe & clutch kit on it for your wife, that might be the limit of mods that she would want but it does make a drastic difference in how it runs. I added everything short of heads & reeds & it runs very reliably, no problems w/ plugs fouling etc for about 1-1/2 years now. I did ride a friends stock 500 for a comparison & was very much disapointed as to how slow it felt compared to the mildly modified 400. But your wife might really like the very smooth & slower acceleration of the 500. No suprises when riding the 500. Electric smooth gradual acceleration. I never drag raced my friend because I didn't want to upset him, but it seemed as though it would have been no contest in a drag race at all. Although I have talked to some people who have raced similarly modified quads & they said in the end the 400 didn't beat the 500 by all that much afterall. Out of the hole & through the 35mph there is sure a difference though.

Mike I thought you had to change the piston to a Wiesco as soon as you go to the 12:1 head? I didn't think the stock piston would hold up? Or do they say it will hold up until the port stage at which point you then have to go to the Wiesco? Just curious since I'm at they point now in my mods.
Thanks
Jim Maloney 98 400 Scrambler

 

Summary - If your ride both, the 400 feels faster. If you drag them, the 500 will usually win but it's close. This is when they are both stock.

If you plan to modify them, go with the 400. You can get LOTS of horse power out of the 400's, and can easily out drag stock Banshee's and some modified ones too. You can hop up the 500 it will cost more and you will get less.

I planned to leave mine basicaly stock, and I was familier with 4-strokes, so I bought the 500. Now that I look back on it I kind of wish I had bought the 400 sometimes, so that I could make it faster easier. Then when I ride a steep tricky hills I appreciate the softer power of the 500.

 

Thanks for the replies so far!

Jim, I think you misunderstood who was getting the Scrambler... My wife will get a quad, but it probably will be something a little less sporty (read cheaper ).

I am starting to lean toward the 400, but I am no where near decided. For those who have modified their 400's, how much $$$ does it take to get to a "satisfactory" increase in performance?

For example, if it has 35HP stock, what does it take to get to 45HP, 55HP, and up? Would a pipe and silencer be all a power monger would want? Is it $250 to get to 45HP? $500 to get to 55HP? $1500 to get to 65HP???

I guess I'm asking for the "mandatory", "most bang for the buck" modifications that are being done to the 400's, and what kind of increases are seen.

I kinda feel guilty asking about this sort of thing. So many have probably gone out experimenting and spending hard-earned cash to find the best way to get good performance, and I'm asking for it for free... <IMG SRC="http://forums.atvconnection.com/ubb/redface.gif">

Anyway, thanks in advance.

PowerHungry

[This message has been edited by PowerHungry (edited 10-28-1999).]

 

I think stock you are looking at 37 horsepower. With a pipe, cluctch kit and re-jet you can take it up to 45-46 horsepower, definately a noticeable difference. Total cost if you do it yourself about $300-$350. For what its worth- i was in your same situation about 1 1/2 months ago. Except that at the time i owned a 98 Sport 400 so i was obviously very familiar with how the Scrambler 400 would ride, feel and handle. I chose the Scrambler 500 over the 400 because i ultimately decided i wanted to go back to a 4-stroke. The 500 is as fast the 400 -stock vs stock. I like the thump of the 4-stroke- think its better for climbing hills, playing in mud etc. No question the Scrambler 400 can be hopped up more and made faster. Both are awesome machines in my opinion, obviously a question of personal preference of 4 vs 2 stroke and how much hopping up you really want to get involved in. I should mention i hopped up my Sport and yes it was very fast, however, once i hopped it up it didnt do certain things as good as it did when it was stock. Trying to do slow, steep hill climbs was harder because when you were moving slow all it wanted to do was go fast and clutch didnt engage as well on those slow uphill climbs.

 

I think stock you are looking at 37 horsepower. With a pipe, cluctch kit and re-jet you can take it up to 45-46 horsepower, definately a noticeable difference. Total cost if you do it yourself about $300-$350. For what its worth- i was in your same situation about 1 1/2 months ago. Except that at the time i owned a 98 Sport 400 so i was obviously very familiar with how the Scrambler 400 would ride, feel and handle. I chose the Scrambler 500 over the 400 because i ultimately decided i wanted to go back to a 4-stroke. The 500 is as fast the 400 -stock vs stock. I like the thump of the 4-stroke- think its better for climbing hills, playing in mud etc. No question the Scrambler 400 can be hopped up more and made faster. Both are awesome machines in my opinion, obviously a question of personal preference of 4 vs 2 stroke and how much hopping up you really want to get involved in. I should mention i hopped up my Sport and yes it was very fast, however, once i hopped it up it didnt do certain things as good as it did when it was stock. Trying to do slow, steep hill climbs was harder because when you were moving slow all it wanted to do was go fast and clutch didnt engage as well on those slow uphill climbs.

 

To be a 500 or not to be a 500 that is the question. Unfortunatly most guys say " Oh yeah i'm just going to keep it stock " and they never do. If you like to tinker, have a descent set of tools and plan to upgrade go with the 400. Like listed in the previous replies, around 45 horse power is fairly easy to obtain on the 400's. 45 horse power for the 500's is about the max with the current avaqilable mods. With the 400's there is more power available granted it's a little more involved to tap into it. 60 to 70 horse power is feasable with 400's. Over 70 horse power has reportedly broken the stock PVT output shaft. The 4 stroke power is more manageable by nature but the PVT system allows the 2 strokes to be smooth too. I have a friend that has like a millon dollars into his banshee and this thing is either stalling or spraying dirt. It is very difficult to ride.

The 2000 Scrambler 400 tips in at 541, just 1 pound lighter than the 500. Last year they claimed a dry weight of 519 lbs ( Don't know where the 22 lbs came from ). It might be worth it to locate a 99 400 that is new. You will probably get a realy good deal and with the money you'll save you can put that towards a pipe, K&N, jet kit and clutch kit. Even though i don't have 60 hp i like to watch my friends stare at all 4 wheels of my scrambler spray dirt.

Good luck
99 Scrambler 500