I know the Raptor 80 is just a replasticed Badger, but is there anything you can do to make it more powerfull? My daughter has been begging me for one. She has a Honda EX 90,
which I know is a better youth quad, but she isn't strong enough (she's only 8) to pull the pull start, and I'm tired of having to get off my Raptor everytime the engine kills. She and I both like the looks alot, but I heard it always comes in third when it is compared to the EX 90 and the Suzuki 80. Do any of you have badgers? and have any of you added pipes? If so, did it improve the horse power? Thanks[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

Have you checked out the Viper? It is coming out about now, has real suspension, and a 90cc 4-stroke with auto clutch, 4-speed, and electric start. It is made by IPC in
Tennessee. These guys make the little Husky, which is a good little 50cc mini with real suspension. It doesn't have real double A-arms up front but it does have about 6" of travel.
I think the new raptorette looks fantastic, it is too bad they can't improve the suspension as well as the looks. A lot of people like the little suzukis as well. Then there's the Kasea 150, which has double wishbone suspension but a manual clutch. At that point you might as well get a Honda 250EX, Which is the smallest truly great quad out there in my opinion.
They will probably sell as many Raptorettes as they can make, based solely on looks. When will they realize kids need quality too?[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]

 

I think I would keep the honda 90EX. Its such a better machine than even the Raptor 80. My nephew had a 97 Badger and the e/start button was the best feature about the machine. The rear suspension was almost ,,,well, none. The front was not very good either. The only good thing about the Raptor 80 is its looks. If it was me I would keep on getting off your Raptor and besides getting on and off your Raptor will keep you flexible. Chet

 

I have spend 100's of hours working with virtually all of the kid's quads. I also like the plastic on the miniRaptor; however, it is still the same piece of junk in a different wrapper!

The most important thing about selecting a quad for a kid is not to go too big. Parents who think their kid is so good that he/she can ride the ***** of a Blaster or Banshee at 9 or even 12 years of age is sick. Truth is, those parents must really want to kill their kids. There is no way a small kid can properly control a big bike they just don't weigh enough.

Looking at the kid market, you have the 50's. Of those, the LEM Cayman 50 $1500 once upgraded (AC Racing in California), they are great for most kids to about 9 years of age. Since some kids are bigger and more advanced, there are the 90cc quads. Stay away from the LT-80 and Eton DXL as both incorporate the engine as part of the rear suspension. Ever seen a kid get "mouse trapped" on a quad? Watch the LT80 long enough and you will see it.
Fortunately, there are other atv's available that work well. Eton, Sundiro, T-Rex, Polaris, Aeon, Kasea, Husky, Artic Cat and others make the list. Of those, only the Kasea $2000 has real rebound dampening shocks, a real chrome moly axle, and the strongest single a-arms in the industry. All of the atv's have electric start and a back up kick start. The Kasea even has a 80 watt lighting coil!
When your kid is safe with the stock power, for a few dollars, you can turn the 90 into a 60+ mph Blaster eater. Trinity Racing in Anaheim California (trinityracing.com) knows how to build the mini atvs. He assisted in the work on my son's atv. It will beat a Cannondale 400 atv in a 150' drag race.
So, there you go, food for thought.

 

Even the Honda 90 is a POS. I just don't understand why these manufacturers don't "step up to the plate" with a couple of really good small quads. Bump steer is bump steer. 2" of suspension is BS.
My son's first quad, at age 10, weighing in at about 75 lbs dripping wet was a Polaris 325 TrailBoss, weighing in dry at 504 lbs. But it was big, wide, stabile. I think it was the right decision. He learned a lot, and now at age 13 rides a Raptor like a pro. My nephew is interested now, age 10, and I am recommending another TrailBoss or a Honda 250EX. I think a Yamaha Breeze is another consideration, but it has lousy suspension too.
Why do small quads have to be narrow too? Stability is stability, and all the little Aeon, Polaris, minis are very narrow and flip over with a tweak of the throttle and a pull on the handlebars.
That TrailBoss taught my son how to powerslide instead of throwing him into the bushes.
I think the mini-quads should be lower and wider, not narrower, like mini-MX quads. Damn, I may have to build or modify one. Hmmmm what to start with. How about Raptor A-arms on a Badger/Raptorette? There are a lot of discarded stock Raptor A-arms around, and it is pretty narrow and lightweight in its' stock form. I'm talking about my 4 year old here, so I got a while to build this. Or wait for some manufacturer to wake up. I can't believe there are so many crappy models to choose from...[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img] Maybe a 250 EX with a throttle control,,,,but not till he's ,,,,6?
One last word on automatics... They let the kid go way fast real quick. Auto-clutch 4-speeds keep them in first gear till they are ready to shift. It is more to learn, but slows them down at first.

 

I guess you have never seen a small kid hurt on a big atv.

The LEM's with a-arms, tires, and shocks are awsome. The Kasea 90 with a-arms and tires is also awsome. We have raced the 90 against full size atv's on a large mx track -- won the holeshot and kept up with the crowd during the race. The little 90 will even clear 35' doubles.

As for 2" of suspension. You mean 2" of stock shock travel. That doubles with aftermarket shocks and goes to 12" of wheel travel with a-arms. We even run 10" Holeshot MX's on the front.

On the issue of "bump steer" there is no issue! Although there is only a single a-arm, the radius of travel does not change the wheel toe and actually helps soften the landings with the scrub of the tires.

 

Well I will agree with you that weight is the enemy. A heavy quad can be a very serious thing if it falls on a small child or the kid gets in between the heavy quad and anything else. But weight, not size, is the enemy. A lightweight quad, built for a lightweight rider, could have a low center of gravity, a wide stance, and would be SAFER, faster, better handling and more fun than anything out there. It sounds like you are around a lot of hot little quads. And as we know from the Big quads, you can make them wider, and lower, and improve suspension, but you can't do much about the weight. So starting out with a target weight, and not adding much weight in the process of widening, lowering etc. is the key.
With that as a given. Selecting a mini should be a matter of vital components, like the motor, frame, weight, and potential for improvement, especially chassis improvements, which is where the horde of these little minis, at least most of them, suck. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]
The 2-strokes have the most racing potential, but for starting out I like the 4-strokes with an auto-clutch. Add chassis upgrades and voila'. But I still would not hesitate to put my 10 year old nephew on a TrailBoss or 250EX. He rode our Grizzly on 10 miles of mountain trails and did just fine. He would do great on a 250EX, or a Kasea 150, but putting him on a Polaris 90 Scrambler would be a mistake.

 

On a trail ride (sight seeing) I have no problem allowing a very responsible properly trained 10 year old ride (not lead) a family outing. Put that same kid in the sand, track or challenging terrain and you have the mix for big trouble.

On the weight issue, most of the mini's weigh in at 235 pounds+-. Once you remove the stock wheels and tires, install some real nerf bars with real foot pegs and replace the stock exhaust, you are down to 185 pounds+-.

The engine on the mini's is not the problem. The engines are copies of scooter motors that have been used for years in Europe. The problem is the transmission. It is not weak by any means it is just set up for safety. Once you make some corrections (modifications) you can do anything with a mini. Plastic is cheap about $100 for a plastic kit. Entire replacement engines only cost about $400. What more can I say, once fully built, your 10 year old can ride a mini with 12-25hp that will easily hit 65mph. This beats the Blaster by a mile.

As for little 4 strokes-- they are ok but I hardly ever see a kid with a smile riding a Honda 90 or even the new Husky 90. They just don't have what it takes to do the job. Besides, the automatic is great for kids (who really need to concentrate on riding as opposed to shifting).

Take care, have a safe one.

 

How about a modified Breeze? Meaning add suspension. It already has a wide track, big tires, electric start, reverse and auto tranny, with a decent 125 4-stroke. It's also been out for a while so I might find a nice used one.
I'm thinking my little guy, 4 now, who has already had a Polaris 90, (Which mom and grandmom made me take back the very next day) would do better on a widetrack, detuned Breeze than that tippy, too fast Scrambler.( He actually was doing pretty okay on the Scrambler, but did get going pretty fast, and scared moms as he buzzed their backyard happy hour) Hear me out. The throttle limiter had to be set high enough for the tranny to engage, which was high enough for it to upshift and really take off. The throttle limiter did not do much to limit speed, just rpm.
So I'm thinking a spacer in the primary clutch, right where the primary spring is, which would only allow the clutch to upshift a little bit, like the equivalent of a first and second gear. Then the throttle limiter could be set a little more freely, and teach the kid throttle control, without it being able to go faster than say, 10 mph. As he learned and got better, I could reduce the size of the spacer, allowing the tranny to upshift farther. This way I can limit speed, and he doesn't have to learn about shifting yet. We also considered this idea on a 4-speed auto-clutch, put it in first gear and take the shift lever off, like a Honda 90. But the Breeze is still the widest "mini" by far. I am going to check weights and widths and get back to this....
Okay I'm back. The Breeze falls right between the Honda 90 and Honda250EX in size and weight. The little Honda is 250 lbs and 35"wide, the Breeze is 300 lbs and 38" wide, and the 250 EX is 350 lbs and 41" wide. The Honda 90 has no electric start or reverse.
I think a Breeze set up like this could work very well for 6 to 10 year old. Not racing, Just trail riding. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

I have regained respect for you fourlix

It seems you have a handle on what a kid needs. On the Polaris, I agree, a throttle limiter will still allow high speed (with less power). What must be done to limit speed is more like the LT50. That is add a reducer to the exhaust at the cylinder. I personally don't subscribe to this method of speed limitation but it does keep rpm down.

You are on the right track with limiting the rear pulley's travel to keep top speed to a minimum. If you go that route, you must do two things. 1. reduce the weight of each variator roller (front pulley) to achieve a slower rate of acceleration (I suspect your rollers weigh 35 grams total -- shoot for about 32 grams total). 2. when limiting the movement of the rear pulley by installing a spacer, you must remove the same length of spring as the spacer that you add. If you fail to do this step, you will burn up the belt, clutch and rollers.