I am planning to buy my first ATV in the near future, and am looking for some input. I've been lurking on these forums for some time, and mostly based on what I've read here, plus some magazine time, pretty well settled on these 2 machines. Let me give you an idea of what I'm dealing with, and you can help me decide.

A large portion of my riding will be playing, we (will be) living on 20 acres, adjacent to many acres of forest service and BLM property. Most of this riding will be on fairly tight, steep trails. If you know North Idaho, you'll appreciate that flat lands are hard to find. A portion of my riding will also be on forest service roads as well. OK, so I'll be playing a fair amount of the time, but the justification for the machine is work. I'll be plowing about 3/8 of a mile of driveway, and for at least 4 months of the year the plow will be on the front of the rig. I'm thinking I need as capabile a machine as I can get for this much road, hence a fairly high-end machine for a first timer. I'll be doing some log skidding, and am considering building a tank that I can bolt to the rear rack to haul 20gallons or so of water for firefighting (wildlands). In addition, I want a machine with fairly easy steering, so my wife can handle it too. I've pretty well decided on IRS for ground clearance, 4 wheel contact with the ground and smoothness of ride.

So which bike? I had kind of ruled out the Polarises (Polari?) due to the reliability comments I've seen here. It sounds like the AC has the smoothest ride and best ability over technical terrain of any rig out there, as well as being very tough. However, I'm not sure I want to be playing catch up anytime I ride with someone else-sounds like the AC's are about the slowest of the 500+ CC machines out there (with the possible exception of the Traxtor). From what I gather the Griz rides nearly as well as the AC, with considerably more power and a locker front diff as well. I'm not sure how big a deal the locker is, but I'm thinking it ought to help while plowing. There is also a more conveniently located dealer for the Yammie.

So, how is the durability on the Griz, under working conditions? I understand the CV joints are pretty massive on the AC, but don't know much about the Griz. I'm a little concerned that the Yammie is 65 lbs or so lighter than the AC, that much of a weight loss must sacrifice strength somewhere. I'm also a little concerned with the cute LCD display-looks like it belongs on a Gameboy (though pretty cool!) rather than on a machine that is going to be operated in the dirt and mud. Am I going to rip up a Griz the first time I try to pull a load or move some weight around?

Any thoughts or input is appreciated.

Thanks.

Brian

 

Brian~

I don't think you could go wrong with either machine. I was going to buy the 500I AC initially, but they kept delaying the release date, so I got the 660 Grizz. I would still get a 500I if I couldn't have the 660 Grizz now...but once I got a taste of the power from the 660, I'm not sure I could ever go back down in cc's. The ride is plush on the Grizz, (as I would assume it is on the AC too), the suspension travel is excellent, but AC does have it beat on the front suspension travel, and you do get a locker...which I've been fairly non commital about until last weekend. I was breaking steep trail & pulling other 4X4 quads in deep snow and on ice. I used the locker..couldn't have done it w/o it.

It's a hard one, as I would own both machines myself. To be honest, if I was planning on doing a lot of work, skidding, plowing, hauling, I would most likely get the AC 500ACT. I think solid rear axels are better suited for heavier work than IRS, but that's just my opinion.

I've not had any issues with the LCD display, nor the fact that it's fairly light compared to the other quads in its class. But...for heavy duty work and pulling....weight would come in handy.

Just some thoughts...

SilverBear

 

Here's my thoughts. If you really want to go fast, then get the 660. Its going to toast the AC. If you intend to drive a lot of nasty mud or in real crap situations where the locker will really see some benefit, then get the Grizz. However, for most situations, you don't need the locker. I'm glad to have mine, but I am constantly in spots just trying to see if I can make it up or through. Its nice to have.

Now, for a good combination of the rest with less speed, get the AC. Its going to be the better of the two in work situations. Especially the manual shift model for towing. I had an AC500 for 3 years, and they are tough as nails. Strong build, lots of low end torque. Heavy set, and stable in all conditions. The i models look to be the real deal too. Ground clearance is better than a 660 also. On top of that, you can probably find an AC for cheaper.

Just depends on your overall preferences mainly.

 

Hey brianidaho,
Well, first I would like to congradulate you on doing good research (these forums are the best place to get a "feeling" of what the different models will be like). Dealers are there to sell and make money, so you have to go somewhere like these forums to get the "real deal".

You really can't go wrong with the 2 choices you've narrowed it down to, I love both machines (not that way guys :-). So, from this point on, you won't be disappointed. See my unbiased review of the 500i.

One thing you could do, is go to the Yamaha and Arctic Cat dealers nearest to you, and see what your gut says about that particular dealer. Maybe you don't even have an Arctic Cat dealer near by or the Yamaha dealer is a jerk, you won't know until you check. Also, I always ask to go into "the back" and talk shop with the mechanics. What problems have they seen, what models don't they see at all......

Also, I think it is important to know what features are important to you and which are not. For example a negative for me on the Grizz was all the electronics (lcd, push button this and that). For me these were negatives, BUT for a lot of other people these are Positives. I also really wanted a manual (I just plain like to shift, but that's me). To get a manual, I gave up not having a locked diff (since Grizz is only auto and the AC500i's don't have locked diffs). I still have yet to "3 wheel", but plan on getting an after market locker when they come out (along the same lines I have a winch, I won't need it much, but when I do need it, I want to have it).

The thing I have come to find on the trails with other riders, is that the AC500i might be slower (top speed and acceleration), but I can go through the trails faster, because of the balance/GC/suspension. And on a lot of trails that we all ride on, top speed is never an issue anyway. The Grizz660 is the closest other ATV out there that I have ridden to the ride of my 500i (the next closest was the SP700). So again, you can't go wrong with either. I would definately say, that the AC has more rugged C/V joints, A arms, and frame. But again, this may be a negative for you (a lot of people like Yamaha being lighter, and actually pick on the AC for being too heavy).

I've always loved yamaha engines (since my first yz125 dirt bike), so don't take the next sentence wrong yami guys. The suzuki 500 engine and tranny have been used in ATV's since 88 or 89 in the quadzillas. These setups have been refined to virtually problem free status over the years, 13 years is a long time to refine (plus there's a lot of parts and knowledge out there). I have full confidence that Yamaha did it right with this 660, but it is newer, and it is just an unknown.

I can go all night, but what is important for you to recognize from all this babling, is that these are some of the things that I used in determining which ATV to go with. Many of the things that I view as positive, MANY other people view as a negative. Most likely you will have to do what I did and compromise. There most likely will be some option that you won't be able to get (ex: I really wanted a locker, but I also wanted a manual). For me price was not an issue, but the AC was cheaper $6599 included TAX, ATV, Destination, & 2500 warn winch. The grizz was going to cost me (6999-ATV, 500-TAX, 350-Dest, 69-winch. Total of ~7520).

I wish you the best of luck, and hope you enjoy riding which ever you choose. But you will be very happy with either ATV.

 

Thanks for the replys guys. I'm having fun doing this research, but it really is a tough choice now. Silverbear, you are familiar with the riding conditions around here, and the dealers. Kootenai Saw and Cycle wants list price on their Griz's, and I'm not sure how straight they are being with me. I was in Saturday, and asking about any issues with the Grizz's, they didn't mention the problem you'd had with the LF CV (or stub shaft from the center section-I'm not sure which) or the issue of fuel boiling in the carbs. I've heard good things about Ponderarry (SP?) Yamaha up in Sandpoint, they have them for $6899, not a big deal either way. The Arctic dealer is brand new (Beudry) (sp again) over in Post Falls, however they will not have any quads in till late in the season, or maybe 2003 models. I don't know much about this dealer anyway. Dales boat service down in Moscow has the 500 ACT's for 5999, I'm not sure what they get for the i. I'll call tomorrow.

For a few hundred dollars (say up to 500), I won't let cost be an issue. However, if I could get the Cat for a grand less, like Rides4fun, that would definately sway me. I had heard that the stock tires are pretty poor on the Yammie, are they any better on the AC, and should they be replaced right away on either?

I am somewhat mixed on auto vs manual. I ride street and dirt bikes, so the manual/auto clutch setup on a ATV won't bother me. However, since my wife will also be riding it, I'm thinking the auto may be the way to go. I currently snow plow with a manual in an old Land Cruiser, the need to clutch and shift is a disadvantage when moving a heavy pile of snow, I'm thinking the auto may be better. Once you get a pile moving, you don't want to stop. Also, if something should crap out, CVT's are pretty easy to work on, vs splitting the case for a geared tranny. Mixed news, like everything else, since the manual is less likely to need to be worked on.

Silverbear, I'm sure that you are right and the smart thing to do is get the 500 ACT. However, who wants to do the smart thing! I'm hoping the AC CV joints, etc are up to some work. I'm thinking I can work out some way to block the suspension if I am doing a lot of log skidding. The higher ground clearance is also an issue. At least the shopping part of this adventure is free!

Any idea when the 2003 models will be out? If AC is going to be coming out with a larger machine, or with a front locker, and available in the summer, I might wait. I don't want to wait until next December like the guys that waited the current 500i's though.

With all the comments here, it sounds like the AC might be smarter for my needs. I can fix most anything mechanically (not that I want to), and do a fair amount on the electrical side, but not anything in the line of electronics, such as the Griz display. I'm also betting that they get a good price when one needs fixed. On the other hand, there's no such thing as too much power....several people I know ride Grizz's and SP 500's, not sure I want to eat dust all the time. I really hate being indecisive.

Based on the prices that Rides4fun has seen, I may need to twist some arms at the closest AC dealers.

Thanks again for the input, please keep them coming.

Bri

 

Brian~

I'm going to shoot straight with you as that's how I want people to be with me. Our local Yammy dealer here was great with me on the Grizz, until I wanted something fixed, at their/yamaha's expense. I'm sure you've read my posts on the hell I went through with those guys and yamaha before they relented and said they'd fix the front axle sliding issue. That really turned me off. I also paid full MSRP. I went in to buy my wife a new quad, as she was wanting the Kodiak. I talked with them and figured they would give me a bit off the MSRP as I just bought a new Grizz. No dice. Well, I paid through the tator for the Grizz because I wanted the LE Silver and couldn't get it anywhere else in N Idaho or Eastern Washington, that is certainly not the case with a Kodiak. I bought it up in Canada and saved myself $1200.00 from what KS&C wanted. I am actually looking for a new dealer somewhat locally who will do more for the customer after the sale and in regards to warrenty. So, I'm retracting my earlier endorsement. I have also heard good things about the sandpoint dealer, but haven't had a chance to check them out. That's on my list to do next month.

My father in law just purchased two new arctic cat 375's from a canadian dealer and was shot a really good price. If you're interested, email me and I'll send you their name and number for you to get a price quote and give ya the name to drop on who sent you. At the very least, it may get you some bargaining from a local Cat dealer around here if they see you're willing and able to go **** a good deal spittin distance 'cross the border.

The stock tires on the Yamahammers suck. Unfortunately, you'll get the same junk on a new arctic cat as well. Plan on upgrading your tires on either machine.

As far as doing the smart thing and going with a solid axle for the heavy work...ya [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] I'm not well know for doing that myself. Quite honestly, from looking at rides4fun's pics, it appears that arctic cat is being consistant and overbuilding their machine to be tougher than a box of nails, and I really don't think you'd have problems working the bejezees outta the 500I. Those a arms and axles look huge. You can likely get confirmation one way or the other from Rides4fun on this one.

I like manuels and autos both. I have to admit, though, that the grizz's auto is starting to really make me lazy. We have a 2001 AC 300 for sale, because the wife didn't like the manuel, and prefers an automatic. Just my experience with wifes and manuels. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Again, your decision is a tough one, at least you know you can't go wrong regardless of which quad you do end up purchasing. As for eating dust...unless you're in the open, I don't see that happening to you much. Hell, I usually pull cabouse and eat dust in the summer. Not because the Grizz wouldn't smoke all the other quads I ride with, I just have a tendency to make sure everyone is staying with the pack and no one is left behind. Now in the winter, I've been in front more as the buddy's are having me break trail for everyone else. Thank Andy Bassham for just another damn fine piece of wisdom on wheels/tires. Trail riding is tight, and there's only a few places you ever really get to open up. You'll never have to worry about powering out an arctic cat, either. As time goes on, Brian, I would let my feelings about how I'm going to be supported by my dealer be the deciding factor on this one. You're quad isn't any better than the service & support you're going to recieve after the sale, and I kinda got snookered...but I'm learning. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

If you've not ridden a 660, and would like to, let me know via email. I'd let you test drive mine and at least you would have an idea of what that is like. If you can test drive the AC500I, I would also do that. Man...test drives can't be stressed enough, and I don't mean a 20 yard stretch on the blacktop at some dealer. That's a joke.

Let me know how your decision shapes up, and I sure hope we've given you some sort of help.

SilverBear

 

Hey Brian,

I wouldn't let a few mechanical issues with the new grizz rule your choice. Yami will get it right, they always do. I'm just very conservative and didn't want to have to deal with anything like that. Be leary of price quotes, most I've seen when I was out shopping were for the ATV ONLY. Didn't include TAX (5 to 8% or about $550), Destination charges (from $200 to $500), and winch ($69 special if offered). Most of the prices I was getting on the ATV's were about 7,000, and when I asked how much to get from my Credit Union, there was more than an additional grand on the price. The AC dealer was the only one who only listed out the door prices. Don't know if that is specific to my dealer, but I think it is the AC dealer's quote..

I definately wouldn't let a couple of hundred dollars be a factor, but I would think carefully if it approaches a grand (in my area it was $1400). The stock tires SUCK on the new Arctic Cats. What the hell were they thinking, they used to use Titan 489's. Not the best tire out there, but I'ld argue they used to be the best stock tire. I wouldn't even consider keeping those Dunlops on it, go buy a good set of well treaded tires (lots to choose from, but I would definately look at www.CHAPARRAL-RACING.com Good ole COB recommends them highly, and their prices are awesome). But between tires, shipping, and mountain estimate about $300 or so, I wouldn't keep either the Grizz's or the Cat's stock tires, they both suck. Anyway, this is a whole other thread, about the crappy tires manufactures are putting stock on new quads (except for the new SP700's look decent, still would upgrade them, but their at least acceptable.

OH Boy, Auto vs Manual, talk about topics for other threads. Without getting into it, here's my .02. It's all about preference. All the issues have been worked out of most auto's now, so there's no downfall to either. I will say that manuals on ATV's are easy, there's no separate clutch to use. You simple click a gear, and the clutch is taken care of in the same motion. On the AC's they have a really nice gear indicator, that makes it easy for my wife. Obviously, you can't beat an auto for easy of driving. CVT's are pretty easy to work on, but that's because on average (not starting anything here guys), you will be in them more on an auto, the belt simply needs replacing more than a manual needs attention. Don't worry though, even as a beginner, a belt will take at the most an hour, and when you get good, it's more like 10 to 20 minutes (their cheap). I just like to shift, and I like holding the engine to a certain gear sometimes, but that's me. Early on I wouldn't have touched an auto, a lot of things were learned, when they were "borroughed" from snowmobiles (like having the vents submerged in water). But now, they are "tried and true" on ATV's and I wouldn't hestitate to recommend one.

If you get the AC, the C/V joints will definately hold up. I wish I didn't have personal experience but I do. I just endo'ed my 500i last weekend three times down a steep hill, stopping only because of a big tree (BANG). My wheel is what stopped the momentum of my ATV. If you want more gorey details, go to the AC forum and look under "Honey moons over..". There was ZERO damage done to the suspension, a-arms, c/v or ball joints, steering, etc. It crushed my steering stem in, busted off my master cylinder, crushed my speedo (still worked though), and cracked 2 small mud flaps (oh yeh, and a 2 cans of sprite). The little bracket that is between the frame and the A arm was squished, but my dealer just pulled it out. I drove the ATV back to my vehicle, thanks to my mechanical foot brake (I would not have had any brakes if my foot brake was hydrolic, because the hydrolics were destroyed). Just put the order in for the parts tonight, and the whole fiasco is only going to cost me around $175. My dealer is just plain awesome (but he could have just as well been a Yami dealer, which is why you have to feel good about your dealer, I can't stress that enough, unless you don't have a choice). I can only speak for AC on the toughness of the C/V's and A-arms and such, as I have come to know them quite well since the wreck, I'm not as familiar with the Grizz's, only that they are not as heavy duty. So, I would say get IRS and have fun on the trails, yet work the crap out of the thing when you need to. If there's one thing I help you with, get a good IRS ATV.

I would not wait on Arctic Cat's 2003's. If they come out with a larger machine, IT WILL STILL BE SLOW. Now a front locker, might be worth a wait, however, there are now 2 or 3 different company's I have heard working on the lockers for i's now. Besides, they are too slow to production, they have a real **** project manager, who refuses to sign it ready for production. This is good for quality, but sucks if you're an impatient SOB like me.

If you are good at mechanics, you can pick up electronics easy. In that world, everything is modular, and you just replace the whole damn thing. My problem with too many electronics isn't repairing them, it's being without them. Not saying that the Yami's electronics are going to quit (matter of fact, haven't heard one case like that), BUT it is just another thing in the equation that can go wrong, and again, I'm very conservative. So that's another judgement call. And yes electronics are expensive. Here's my response to your eating dust... So far, in the trails I've ridden (Locust, Oakey, Braswell, and other mtn trails), I have always had to stop and wait. And a lot of times I was kind of going casual through the stuff. My theory here is that, I don't slow down most the time, and don't have to go around much, in fact I am using accelerating when most are decelerating. The few open stretches that we would come to at these ORV places we'ld get up to 30, 40 max. So topspeed and acceleration didn't mean much. I usually hear things like, I hate trying to follow your line, because I always get beatup. But you'll have the same thing with the Grizz, just not as good articulation. It really depends on where you will be riding if you will be in situations where top speed or acceleration matter much.
Hey, you could get your ATV down here, and get a better price and no taxes :-) You could stay at hotel Christian's :-) Anyway, sorry this is so long, it's just that I want to give you as much information as possible so that you end up with the best ATV for you. But at this point, you'll be happy either way, just watch out for them dealers, there's some bad ones out there. Let us know if you have any other questions.

 

Have you considered the Prairie 650?

 

Thanks again for all the thought and time that has gone into your posts, I really appreciate it. Silverbear, I'm e-mailing you for the name of the Canadian AC dealer. A guy I work with bought his Polaris across the border, I think he said he saved something like $1500. I'd much prefer to support someone local, but have to draw the line at some point. The local Polaris dealer wants nearly $8k for the 700SP, and about $6900 for the 500 HO, so it may be just a matter of him being gready, going for that much over MSRP. I really appreciate the offer to test ride Griz as well, I'd like to take you up on that at some point, if you are sure you'll trust a greenhorn with it. I'm thinking about taking a ride up to Sandpoint to their dealer this weekend, let me know if you'd like to go along. Once I get settled I'll be quite a bit closer to Sandpoint than CDA, so they might be good to get to know. I wish AC had better dealer support close by, as far as I know there isn't one in Sandpoint or CDA, the people in PF are brand new (as within the last few weeks), Pinehurst is overpriced (wanted list on the AC 500 ACT, I need to quiz them on i). I've heard good things about the AC dealer in Moscow, and they sounded good over the phone, but thats way out of the way. I don't mind the run for the machine, but will be a pain for parts and service.

Based on dealer location only, the Griz is sounding better. For most other reasons I've pretty well convinced myself the AC would be the smarter choice for my needs (as opposed to wants!)-probably tougher, heavier, which should be better for a work rig, and more proven, at least in terms of the engine/transmission combo, and generally simpler with less to go wrong.

Rides4Fun, sorry to hear about your unfortunate incident with gravity, sure is an unforgiving sucker! I've mildly crunched a couple of sleds, it sure takes the fun out of things in a hurry. Glad to hear that you are getting off pretty cheaply. Not to bash, but I'm wondering how the Griz would have held up in a similar get-off. I'm also glad to hear that in trail riding that you aren't seeing the power issue as a big deal. I have owned AC sleds in the past, and have never seen anyone keep up with me on the trails, except one friend of mine that races bikes competatively in the summer, he was also on an AC. Sounds like same as with the ATV, unless you are running on fairly level ground, the suspension will be the deciding factor in the speeds you can maintain, as well as the lack of common sense on the part of the rider [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img].

Corndog, the only things that I have against the Prarie is the rigid swing-arm suspension, and my local dealer. I've dealt with this guy for parts for my street bike (Kaw Concours) and in the past for sled parts (he carried AC at the time). Wasn't too impressed. Based on what I've read, the Prarie sounds like a very good bike, just aimed more at sport than utility. Of course this is based on no first hand experience, mostly what I've seen in the magazines, so I'm probably full of crap.

Anyway, I need to spend more time at the local dealers, kind of feel them out a little. What is your experience with parts-will most dealers charge MSRP, or will they cut you some slack?

Bri

 

I am going through the same dilema, my question is how will the Cat handle with a heavy load on the IRS, having NO sway bar, won't it squash down, as I load my machine up alot and towe. Will it handle this.
I would like a manual, as I miss changing gears and want something good on fuel.
Any comments.