My 400cc engine quit running today???
Dec 31, 2001 | 06:04 PM
#1
Thread Starter
|
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,572
Likes: 0
Today,
I introduced my friend John to the sport of ATVing.We meet at my local riding area.I brought along my wifes Recon for him to ride.John has NEVER rode before.He took to this ATVing thing real good.He did not hot dog the trail,and he payed close attention to me.
After about 10 miles or so,John and I switched ATVs,as I wanted him to experience the feel of the larger 4x4 Xplorer.John MILDLY[he was following me] rode the Xplorer no more than a 1/4 mile and it QUIT!I stopped to see if he accidently hit the engine stop switch,he did not.I spun the engine over and I immediately knew something was wrong with the engine,it spun VERY easy and sounded like there was NO compression?My temp light was on and antifreeze spewed out the top of my plastic overflow tank.I turned the key on until the fan turned off and tried to fire the engine up again.No way,it just spins over VERY easily and im pretty certain I have a compression related problem somewhere?
There were NO strange sounds when I gave the quad to John and except for the loss of compression,I cant hear anything knocking in the engine when I turn it over,before OR after this occurance.
This troubles me because there was no indication at any time that I could be soon encountering engine failure.Up to this point,the engine has been bulletproof to 2400 miles.No bad sound or knocks,allways starts right up ect.The engine WAS one of the things I liked most about my Xplorer,but just like the rest of it,it now fails me too.
Any Idea's on where I need to start looking for the problem?
Bill
I introduced my friend John to the sport of ATVing.We meet at my local riding area.I brought along my wifes Recon for him to ride.John has NEVER rode before.He took to this ATVing thing real good.He did not hot dog the trail,and he payed close attention to me.
After about 10 miles or so,John and I switched ATVs,as I wanted him to experience the feel of the larger 4x4 Xplorer.John MILDLY[he was following me] rode the Xplorer no more than a 1/4 mile and it QUIT!I stopped to see if he accidently hit the engine stop switch,he did not.I spun the engine over and I immediately knew something was wrong with the engine,it spun VERY easy and sounded like there was NO compression?My temp light was on and antifreeze spewed out the top of my plastic overflow tank.I turned the key on until the fan turned off and tried to fire the engine up again.No way,it just spins over VERY easily and im pretty certain I have a compression related problem somewhere?
There were NO strange sounds when I gave the quad to John and except for the loss of compression,I cant hear anything knocking in the engine when I turn it over,before OR after this occurance.
This troubles me because there was no indication at any time that I could be soon encountering engine failure.Up to this point,the engine has been bulletproof to 2400 miles.No bad sound or knocks,allways starts right up ect.The engine WAS one of the things I liked most about my Xplorer,but just like the rest of it,it now fails me too.
Any Idea's on where I need to start looking for the problem?
Bill
Dec 31, 2001 | 06:30 PM
#2
Pro Rider
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,216
Likes: 0
Bill,
It sounds like one of two things.
One: The head gasket could be bad. Pull the head and check it out. The reason I'm saying this is because of the antifreeze spewing out of the reservoir. You could also check the cylinder bolts for tightness.
Two: You could have melted the piston. Did you re-jet for colder weather? The reason I'm asking is that it could also cause the engine to run hot (and melt the piston too) While you have the head off check for aluminum deposits on the cylinder walls. They would appear as white areas on the cylinder walls, as opposed to the normal gray of the steel liner. The aluminum jams the piston rings closed and gives it no compression. If this is the case, you will have to have the cylinder rebored, honed and have a new piston put in. Go with a coated Wiseco. Rick Ritter of RCR has them. After this is done, rejet the carb by adding a larger main jet. Then, break in the motor using a double mixture of oil for the first tank (add oil to the gas or 12.8 oz per tankful) and take it easy for the first tankfull.
Hope this helps.
It sounds like one of two things.
One: The head gasket could be bad. Pull the head and check it out. The reason I'm saying this is because of the antifreeze spewing out of the reservoir. You could also check the cylinder bolts for tightness.
Two: You could have melted the piston. Did you re-jet for colder weather? The reason I'm asking is that it could also cause the engine to run hot (and melt the piston too) While you have the head off check for aluminum deposits on the cylinder walls. They would appear as white areas on the cylinder walls, as opposed to the normal gray of the steel liner. The aluminum jams the piston rings closed and gives it no compression. If this is the case, you will have to have the cylinder rebored, honed and have a new piston put in. Go with a coated Wiseco. Rick Ritter of RCR has them. After this is done, rejet the carb by adding a larger main jet. Then, break in the motor using a double mixture of oil for the first tank (add oil to the gas or 12.8 oz per tankful) and take it easy for the first tankfull.
Hope this helps.
Dec 31, 2001 | 10:38 PM
#3
Pro Rider
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,417
Likes: 0
Muddy, I feel for you, man. You have got to have worse luck with that Xplorer than Fat Albert does with cushion insoles. (I think I just gave away a hint how old I am).
My vote - you have a hole in your piston.
It COULD be several things. If it was anyone else, I would maybe say the head gasket would be more likely, but since this is your machine, I might as well guess the worst that could happen...
Let's see...worst case scenario...
Hole in piston...molten piston chunks spewn into guts of engine ruining crank & rod bearings, ruined cylinder bore...
What all it will take to fix? New piston, bottm end bearings, rod bearings, cylinder will need honing, lawn mown, sidewalk shoveled, cat neutered...did I leave anything out?
I DO wish the best for you and hope it only blew a gasket...I know, not much consolation, but that is about all I can offer [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]
I don't suppose this means you are going to get a new HO now that they have the winch deal going again?? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
(Seriously, though I posted this in jest hoping to give you a much-needed chuckle, I meant no offense. I think you are adult enough to get it, but SOME people need a reminder what sarcasm is).
If you want or need any advice on how to tear down your engine, I am here for you as best I know how. I would start by popping off the head, and looking down at what I see.
My vote - you have a hole in your piston.
It COULD be several things. If it was anyone else, I would maybe say the head gasket would be more likely, but since this is your machine, I might as well guess the worst that could happen...
Let's see...worst case scenario...
Hole in piston...molten piston chunks spewn into guts of engine ruining crank & rod bearings, ruined cylinder bore...
What all it will take to fix? New piston, bottm end bearings, rod bearings, cylinder will need honing, lawn mown, sidewalk shoveled, cat neutered...did I leave anything out?
I DO wish the best for you and hope it only blew a gasket...I know, not much consolation, but that is about all I can offer [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]
I don't suppose this means you are going to get a new HO now that they have the winch deal going again?? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
(Seriously, though I posted this in jest hoping to give you a much-needed chuckle, I meant no offense. I think you are adult enough to get it, but SOME people need a reminder what sarcasm is).
If you want or need any advice on how to tear down your engine, I am here for you as best I know how. I would start by popping off the head, and looking down at what I see.
Jan 1, 2002 | 04:24 AM
#4
Pro Rider
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
Bill, first off Happy New year! You have my sympathy! It seems I just read a post of yours not long ago about the fact that the motor was the one thing that really had never been a problem on your quad. My vote is also piston. Very likely scored or a hole in it. Could be you had a mid range lean condition that was never apparent with your riding style, but was brought out by your friend riding it slower and at a constant mid throttle position. Not his fault by any means. Pull the spark plug first and see if there is any light gray aluminum material on it. I dont know about your particular model, but if you can get the exhaust pipe off easily and get a look in the port you should be able to see in the cylinder if there is any scoring or not. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but no matter what, at a minimum the head will have to come off. (if its just the head gasket)
Otherwise you are looking at pulling the whole cylinder and piston. You may as well have some fun with it then, and do some mild porting and shaving on the head...........on second thought, maybe not!
Good luck and let us know what you find!
Otherwise you are looking at pulling the whole cylinder and piston. You may as well have some fun with it then, and do some mild porting and shaving on the head...........on second thought, maybe not!
Good luck and let us know what you find!
Jan 1, 2002 | 07:45 AM
#5
Thread Starter
|
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,572
Likes: 0
I posted back to you guys last night,I see this morning for whatever reason,it did not take,so here we go again.
First off,Happy New Yrs to all,I hope that the new yr brings in happiness and good health to all!
I talked to Rick Ritter last night,he says exactly what you guys are saying.Im going to see Steve[Polaris mechanic]tommorrow and see if my extended warrenty is going to cover this mishap?Steve has been EXCELLANT about getting things covered under this warrenty for me.If not,I'll be tearing it down myself.
In NO case will I put the stock POS Polaris piston back in,I've heard many of you guys talk about this.I'll be going with Wiseco.I really think even if it is just a head gasket,I'll still go thru the exspense of trading cyclinders with Rick Ritter and buying the new piston.I dont think my problem leads to the bottom of my engine and I hope to be able to leave this part alone.This is the STRANGEST engine failure I have ever been part of.The engine was NOT running hot before I gave it to John,it made NO noises,and the poor guy only rode it for not more than a 1/4 mile before it quit.No indications that there could be a problem brewing?This just ''HAPPENED''with no warning.
At any rate,thanks to all and I will certainly keep you all updated as soon as I find out whats going on?
Bill
First off,Happy New Yrs to all,I hope that the new yr brings in happiness and good health to all!
I talked to Rick Ritter last night,he says exactly what you guys are saying.Im going to see Steve[Polaris mechanic]tommorrow and see if my extended warrenty is going to cover this mishap?Steve has been EXCELLANT about getting things covered under this warrenty for me.If not,I'll be tearing it down myself.
In NO case will I put the stock POS Polaris piston back in,I've heard many of you guys talk about this.I'll be going with Wiseco.I really think even if it is just a head gasket,I'll still go thru the exspense of trading cyclinders with Rick Ritter and buying the new piston.I dont think my problem leads to the bottom of my engine and I hope to be able to leave this part alone.This is the STRANGEST engine failure I have ever been part of.The engine was NOT running hot before I gave it to John,it made NO noises,and the poor guy only rode it for not more than a 1/4 mile before it quit.No indications that there could be a problem brewing?This just ''HAPPENED''with no warning.
At any rate,thanks to all and I will certainly keep you all updated as soon as I find out whats going on?
Bill
Jan 1, 2002 | 01:47 PM
#6
Pro Rider
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 329
Likes: 0
I would guess Trailboss450 hit the nail on the head. All my 2-stroke experience is with mountain sleds and one thing is common to most off them: a lean spot somewhere in the midrange. Most experienced riders are on and off the throttle all the time, so it never runs long enough in the lean spot to heat up and destroy a piston. Your buddy probably held your 400 at 1/4 throttle for a long period and just happened to find the badly tuned area in your carb.
Jan 1, 2002 | 01:52 PM
#7
Thread Starter
|
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,572
Likes: 0
DAVEB,
some of you guys misread my opening post.I did not say that my friend rode the quad at 1/4 throttle.I said he rode the quad for no more than a quarter of a mile before the engine quit.This is certainly NOT my friends fault.
Bill
some of you guys misread my opening post.I did not say that my friend rode the quad at 1/4 throttle.I said he rode the quad for no more than a quarter of a mile before the engine quit.This is certainly NOT my friends fault.
Bill
Trending Topics
Jan 1, 2002 | 02:21 PM
#8
Trailblazer
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Bill, well now you have had just about EVERY possible thing to ever go wrong with an xplorer, i think it likes to get even with you whenever you post about all your problems, anyway Happy new year and thanks for telling us your probs because it makes me think alot harder before purchasing one[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Jan 1, 2002 | 03:09 PM
#9
Pro Rider
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
Bill,
I was in no way saying it was your friends "fault" that that your motor had the problem. I just meant that being a novice rider on a more powerful machine than he had just been on prior, he was possibly more prone to hold the throttle at a steady position. At least until he got a "feel" for the bike. At just the right lean spot in the midrange it would not take even a 1/4 mile to burn a piston. Like I said, it was certainly not his fault at all...just your misfortune if a "midrange lean" is indeed the problem. The only way you could find out is to put on an EGT gauge when you reassemble. They truly are the best way to know what is going on inside a motor.
Happy New Year
I was in no way saying it was your friends "fault" that that your motor had the problem. I just meant that being a novice rider on a more powerful machine than he had just been on prior, he was possibly more prone to hold the throttle at a steady position. At least until he got a "feel" for the bike. At just the right lean spot in the midrange it would not take even a 1/4 mile to burn a piston. Like I said, it was certainly not his fault at all...just your misfortune if a "midrange lean" is indeed the problem. The only way you could find out is to put on an EGT gauge when you reassemble. They truly are the best way to know what is going on inside a motor.
Happy New Year
Jan 1, 2002 | 03:18 PM
#10
Thread Starter
|
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,572
Likes: 0
trailboss,
sorry,I did not mean for it to sound like I thought you guys were thinking it might be my friends fault for this failure.Instead,I was just tring to clear up the fact that John only rode the quad for 1/4 mile instead of holding the throttle at 1/4 throttle.
Anyways,I appreiciate the advice coming from all of you!
Bill
sorry,I did not mean for it to sound like I thought you guys were thinking it might be my friends fault for this failure.Instead,I was just tring to clear up the fact that John only rode the quad for 1/4 mile instead of holding the throttle at 1/4 throttle.
Anyways,I appreiciate the advice coming from all of you!
Bill