i think we need to set up a octagon ring in the arctic cat forum for you two. now i don't want any biting well other then that go nuts [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Chumley

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: buckaroo50

Chumpley, it is about clearance and traction, not hp and floating. But then again you think you know everything. And they were not a hunk of junk but in fact new. And if you knew anything you would realize that I had more clearance and my tires even tho' 25" are just as agressive or more so. Say, where are some pics of you big bad machine all I see is a 250... lol</end quote></div>



I don't know everything, but I'll tell you what me and every every other rider with experience on this forum knows:



Your 400 with stock tires isn't going to beat a big bore with mud tires in the mud without a great deal of rider error on one end. I've ridden with plenty of other machines, I've been to mud run competitions, and that's a fact, jack. Dream all you want, because that is the only place you are going to win.



Cute play on words too, "chumpley". I had you pegged for an old fart, not a elementary student.</end quote></div>

No one said I had stock tires just 25" tires, Chumpley. And they are more agressirve than some Mudlite XL's
And even though they had big fat 26x12x12 and 27x12x12 and just floated because of being a light machine they still only had 10-11 inches of clearance.

http://mysite.verizon.net/buck...ovie/750-p1050208.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/buck...ovie/750-p1050209.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/buck...ovie/750-p1050212.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/buck...ovie/750-p1050213.jpg


Need I say more. Get all your facts before you shoot your mouth off.
How does 10 or 11 inches measure up on the ruler? As I told you I also had more clearance than them. But you got this thing about big bore, that simply is if it is big bore then it must be better, and the rest of the machines might just as well lay down and concede. And as I have said in the past many a rider has seen that a 400 is a very capable machine, and it doesn't need 26 or 27 inch tires.

 

Im at just under 14 with 26" swamplites

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: v2rider

Im at just under 14 with 26" swamplites</end quote></div>

That should work good for you. I don't do 26" or 27" because I probably don't have the engine to turn them the way that I would like, I want to be up in my rpm's so I want the gearing low (I don't mind screaming my engine at 5000 or 6000 rpm's in low range). Plus I want the handling of a lower profile tire. We are similar in GC, you may have a little edge. I gained some with my 1" spacers, (because of the angle of the A-arms I think it lifted the machine close to an inch) and they help not only in handling but I can run out of ruts with one side in an off camber and gain clearance and traction that way too. 50" wide vs 48".

 

I should look into the spacers, she feels top heavy on real steep sideways hills

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: v2rider

I should look into the spacers, she feels top heavy on real steep sideways hills</end quote></div>

You would love them. Well worth the money and then some. You will think that you have a whole different machine. Between you and I and being honest - I was very frustrated with my machine at one point until I started to mess with tire pressures and preloads and even at one point thought about trading - but I wanted the GC, and I knew that AC was a really heavy and tough machine. One think led to another and the spacers went on and now you couldn't give me another machine. It is like day an night.

If you are interseted, here is the link. They are Highlifter spacers. You will need one set for the front and one set for the rear. But again I would spend the money two times over for the benefits that they have done for my machine.
http://www.psep.biz/store/arct...t_atv_wheel_spacer.htm

 

You are actually right, I confused you with another user (who had stock tires) who made similar claims. Sorry, it's tough to remember who's BS story belongs to who sometimes.

I have never ever said that big bores are automatically better. I have argued with you when you have said that big bores are useless and no one should own them. Whatever, we all know that you know what is best for everyone to ride. I'll be trading my 650 in on a 400 later this week. I'm sick of falling behind, I need something that can keep up.

 

Well, different riders like different things. When it comes right down to it. My machine is about the same as yours (same frame, same axles, same CV joints, same shocks etc.) The difference being is that you have a 650 and I have 400. Yes you can go faster than me. You can pull wheelies and I can't, you can tow more weight than I can - providing you can hook your tires with the torque. But 10mph on trails in 4x4 is still 10 mph wether you are on a 400 or a 650 or a 800. And all I have ever said is that a 400 is very capable of moving the machine over trails. I can't ride any trail at 65mph, it would have to be a dirt road or asphault road. And in low-range and 2-8mph the 400 will climb over rocks, logs, stumps and go through crap about as well as a larger engine. And unless your preference be big bore or you have a special need for a bigger engine, why spend the extra money - 10mph is still 10mph... And in a lot of cases unless the skill of the rider is way up there, then more torque can work against you in many situations. You have to be in tune with the throttle response and almost be able to feel when your giving it too much and to back off a tad so things can hook up. Most riders, especially 'newbies' don't have that skill. You may have that skill but a lot of people don't. (Human nature is that when met with resistance we have a tendancy to give it more instead of backing off - could be caused by adrenaline or what ever). And you know as well as I do there are many situations where we need to feather back off the throttle in order to make it though a situation - and not just to hammer down on it. There is just more margin for error with a small bore than a big bore. And all this is what I have been advocating... especially for new or inexperienced riders. And for them to not just think in terms that since it has a bigger motor that it is a better machine, that a small bore such as a 400 is really no slouch and is very capable. Yes, I have the skills to handle a big bore and you have those skills too but there are many that don't and they would have a crude awakining jumping on a big bore thinking that because it is big then it must be the best. It may be, but they don't have the skill to get that out of the machine and may be dissapointed very easily. I don't believe there are too many places that a big bore can go that I can't. And I am not bragging but if I get out done, then generally it comes from another AC and not other brands - no matter what size the engine is. And SRA's, really don't stand a chance - and it would not matter if they had an 800+, they are just not going to be able to go where I can. Faster - yes, but that is about it. 10mph is still 10mph... on trails.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: buckaroo50

Well, different riders like different things. When it comes right down to it. My machine is about the same as yours (same frame, same axles, same CV joints, same shocks etc.) The difference being is that you have a 650 and I have 400. Yes you can go faster than me. You can pull wheelies and I can't, you can tow more weight than I can - providing you can hook your tires with the torque. But 10mph on trails in 4x4 is still 10 mph wether you are on a 400 or a 650 or a 800. And all I have ever said is that a 400 is very capable of moving the machine over trails. I can't ride any trail at 65mph, it would have to be a dirt road or asphault road. And in low-range and 2-8mph the 400 will climb over rocks, logs, stumps and go through crap about as well as a larger engine. And unless your preference be big bore or you have a special need for a bigger engine, why spend the extra money - 10mph is still 10mph... And in a lot of cases unless the skill of the rider is way up there, then more torque can work against you in many situations. You have to be in tune with the throttle response and almost be able to feel when your giving it too much and to back off a tad so things can hook up. Most riders, especially 'newbies' don't have that skill. You may have that skill but a lot of people don't. (Human nature is that when met with resistance we have a tendancy to give it more instead of backing off - could be caused by adrenaline or what ever). And you know as well as I do there are many situations where we need to feather back off the throttle in order to make it though a situation - and not just to hammer down on it. There is just more margin for error with a small bore than a big bore. And all this is what I have been advocating... especially for new or inexperienced riders. And for them to not just think in terms that since it has a bigger motor that it is a better machine, that a small bore such as a 400 is really no slouch and is very capable. Yes, I have the skills to handle a big bore and you have those skills too but there are many that don't and they would have a crude awakining jumping on a big bore thinking that because it is big then it must be the best. It may be, but they don't have the skill to get that out of the machine and may be dissapointed very easily. I don't believe there are too many places that a big bore can go that I can't. And I am not bragging but if I get out done, then generally it comes from another AC and not other brands - no matter what size the engine is. And SRA's, really don't stand a chance - and it would not matter if they had an 800+, they are just not going to be able to go where I can. Faster - yes, but that is about it. 10mph is still 10mph... on trails.</end quote></div>

I do not disagree with anything here. All I've ever tried to get from you is to admit that some people's riding style requires more power, and that isn't a bad thing.

 

Absolutely right. For the most part people that have experiece are not going to be asking certain questions. I certainly don't want to recommend a big bore to an inexperieced rider that could get satisfaction and fun from a smaller displacement manchine and for them to understand that bigger doesn't always mean better, just means bigger and faster. And people with experience are not going to be asking those questions. Until they gain experience and really know what they want, why waste the extra money on a machine that may be too much for them or be an overkill for their needs.

Everyone can have a ball on a moped (you just are embarrassed to be seen in public with one), but by the same token you don't want to be grabbing a fist full of throttle on a 150 HP motorcycle unless you hang on real tight and know what you are doing, because you may not get a second chance to make the same mistake.