<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: v2rider

I should look into the spacers, she feels top heavy on real steep sideways hills</end quote></div>

When I put my new ITP type 7 rims on my bf750, the dealer made me a cash deal on 12" rims and 27" ITP 589's for $550 OTD and mounted. The only thing was he said the back rims for for a SRA quad, which I didn't thing anything of it until I saw them on my bf750. The back wheels stuck out an extra 2.5 to 3 inches on both sides. At first I didn't really like it set up this way until I got in the mud and ruts. TALK ABOUT NIGHT AND DAY!!! I went through holes that I used to get stuck in b/c the back wheels would grab the sides. It is totally amazing! And it made the quad extremely stable in off camber situations. The only down draw is don't wear you Sunday clothes when riding it now....LOL....talk about slinging mud all over the quad and yourself. I am now actually looking for mud flap extenders for it.

Anyway, I say all this to say wheel spacers are well worth the cost if you ever get into any muddy ruts and in off camber situations. These back off set wheels acted like wheel spacers and made a world of difference.

 

Now you know why I have 3" fender extenders and mudflaps. Don't you find what an inch or so in wheel stance can do? It's like a totally different machine, with many more capababilities that you never experienced before. It is so much fun it actually is awsome.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Chumley

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: buckaroo50



Well, different riders like different things. When it comes right down to it. My machine is about the same as yours (same frame, same axles, same CV joints, same shocks etc.) The difference being is that you have a 650 and I have 400. Yes you can go faster than me. You can pull wheelies and I can't, you can tow more weight than I can - providing you can hook your tires with the torque. But 10mph on trails in 4x4 is still 10 mph wether you are on a 400 or a 650 or a 800. And all I have ever said is that a 400 is very capable of moving the machine over trails. I can't ride any trail at 65mph, it would have to be a dirt road or asphault road. And in low-range and 2-8mph the 400 will climb over rocks, logs, stumps and go through crap about as well as a larger engine. And unless your preference be big bore or you have a special need for a bigger engine, why spend the extra money - 10mph is still 10mph... And in a lot of cases unless the skill of the rider is way up there, then more torque can work against you in many situations. You have to be in tune with the throttle response and almost be able to feel when your giving it too much and to back off a tad so things can hook up. Most riders, especially 'newbies' don't have that skill. You may have that skill but a lot of people don't. (Human nature is that when met with resistance we have a tendancy to give it more instead of backing off - could be caused by adrenaline or what ever). And you know as well as I do there are many situations where we need to feather back off the throttle in order to make it though a situation - and not just to hammer down on it. There is just more margin for error with a small bore than a big bore. And all this is what I have been advocating... especially for new or inexperienced riders. And for them to not just think in terms that since it has a bigger motor that it is a better machine, that a small bore such as a 400 is really no slouch and is very capable. Yes, I have the skills to handle a big bore and you have those skills too but there are many that don't and they would have a crude awakining jumping on a big bore thinking that because it is big then it must be the best. It may be, but they don't have the skill to get that out of the machine and may be dissapointed very easily. I don't believe there are too many places that a big bore can go that I can't. And I am not bragging but if I get out done, then generally it comes from another AC and not other brands - no matter what size the engine is. And SRA's, really don't stand a chance - and it would not matter if they had an 800+, they are just not going to be able to go where I can. Faster - yes, but that is about it. 10mph is still 10mph... on trails.</end quote></div>



I do not disagree with anything here. All I've ever tried to get from you is to admit that some people's riding style requires more power, and that isn't a bad thing.</end quote></div>

I do admit that, but you also have to admit that a big bore is not for everyone. That 90% of the riders could have their needs met with a 400-500 class machine and that these machines are not a whimpy toy that you need only to stay on your back lawn, that in fact if setup properly they are a capable machine and will get them there and back and also with a lot of fun. That going only 50-55 mph on a Utility machine (that wasn't really built for the purpose of speed) is still fast and crashing at that speed can still hurt like hell.

 

'Wants' are just as valid a reason to buy as 'needs'. A 400 may suit my 'needs' but it comes nowhere near suiting my 'wants'. Hell, I have two friends with 300's and they do fine for the most part. There are definitely places the 300 can't but there are very very few places that a 4-500 is incapable of following me to, but getting there is half the fun. I like to go fast, I like to ride wheelies, I like to jump and drive like a lot of people think I am nuts. I love gunning it out of a corner and pulling it up on two or even one wheel. That's what I like, and I'm entitled to drive a big bore if I feel like it, regardless of whether or not I NEED it.

As far as using a sport quad for these things, yeh, I'd love to have one. But, I can drive my utility wild when I'm done working. I can't however work a sport quad before I go get nuts. Therefore the obvious choice for me (and many others) was a big bore utility that I can do jumps, wheelies and high speed runs with.

Am I even considering a 950? No. My 650 meets all current needs and wants (to the extent that a utility can meet). My next machine won't be a bigger utility, but rather a sport quad, probably a DVX, maybe a KFX700. I'll have great fun researching and buying 'go fast' items for it, and even more fun talking to others about why I chose what parts. I would have loved to see a 750 twin though, that would have gotten my attention.

 

Precicely my point. Your style of riding warrants more on the sport quad than a utility. Pulling out of a turn and fish-tailing for 100 yards is a great deal of fun or lifting one or both front tires off the ground is also great fun but that is more sport style than utility style of riding. And yes it is boring to have a utility that doesn't offer some level of sport fun but it still is a utility vehicle and there are sport quads more suited for sportier riding.
I just feel that up to a 650 machine, it can offer a utility side and also a sporty side. Above that is pointless and to me a waste, and for the most part an overkill on the utility side, and if peoples wants exceed that, they should seriously consider a sport quad over a utility quad.
How much power from a 950cc, 700lb machine can effectively use before it goes beyond it's limitations? Heck you can take a 650 now and chain it down to enough weight so that it can't budge it and it will just sit there and spin because it has so much torque, add more weight to the machine and put more downforce on the traction and yes it will pull more. How heavy would you have to make the 950 before the traction was so great that it would bog the engine (assuming it didn't blow the tranny and twist all the axles like pretzels, and puke the differentials)? You put the wrong rider on that machine that thinks because it is bigger that it is better and you have just created an accident looking for a place to happen.

 

I just don't want 'newbies' or limited experieced riders that are relatively new to ATV's to think that they need the biggest and baddest machine in order to have their needs or wants met. That quite possibly their wants and needs from a UTILITY machine could be met with under 600cc and that the over 600cc class machines are basically for people that have special needs and special wants, but that those machines are not for everyone, and almost most definately not for 'newbies' or riders with limited experience.

 

I have read on several forums the same question. "How big should I get, I am an adult, will a 400 have enough power to carry me" Well, for all those who ask that question. My 400 twisted and broke a 3/4" steel axle (the same axle that they use in 650 machines) like it was a toothpick and a week later chewed a CV joint into 20 peices - I would say it has enough power to carry any adult and any two adults. And it all comes down to how fast do you want to go and how much weight do you need to tow.

I have said what I want and am done with this subject. Anyone can buy what they want I just hope that they make a good choice to meet their needs and wants, and end up buying something that is not an overkill for them and waste a great deal of money in the process. Or worse yet end up with a machine that is dangerous for their skill level.

 

Just saw this thread. Let me add my story here.

I had ridden four wheelers a little as I grew up, but I had never really ridden 'hard'. When me and wife decided to buy two quads, we figured one ute, and one sport. We have a big need for the ute, as we have some land that requires towing trees, pulling shredders, etc.. I immediately went big bore, and bought the biggest quad at the time. We got the Brute Force 750. I will add, it was very tippy, especially for a relative new rider. We got some ITP tires and wheels, which widened the bike substantially, and really improved the handling. I still pushed the quad to extremes, and rolled it over a couple of differnt times, at relatively low speeds. No damage to me, and minimal to the quad. The off-camber situations were the toughest to master. Well, we never did get our sport quad as the wifey got prego. We really love the brute, and now that we have both gotten used to the 750, our next quad will be a big one too. I have ridden my buddies raptor 700, and I don't think it is for me. That SRA just hurts too much. I see a new renegade 800 as my target.

Summary: I think starting with a big-bore can be dangerous, but once you get used to it, you probably don't want anything smaller. Its just too much fun when you slam the thumb down and feel the power.