Who to have Port Your head???
#121
02-03-2006, 08:33 PM
Who to have Port Your head???
Question:
cylinder porter (A) offers porting for 2 cases of beer
cylinder porter (B) offers only one porting for 1 bottle of Crown Select
cylinder porter (C) offers porting for 2 cases of beer, but you can get upgraded porting to 1 bottle of Crown Select
Cylinder porter (D) offers porting for 2 cases of beer, upgraded porting for 1 bottle of Crown Select, and the his best porting for a Barrel of Crown Select.
Now, our budget can't afford the Barrel of Crown, so we are going to spend 1 bottle of Crown. Where will you get your best value for the 1 Bottle of Crown?
I shouldn't have said "can't afford", because we will spend that much or more next week buying a new car or that new pool. I should say can't justify spending that much (which is OK, I'm not sure I would spend that much on my wife's trail bike).
There seems to be a mindset of "since I can't afford the Barrel of crown, I'm not going with that porter at all, because I don't want his second best. I'll go with the guy who only offers porting for a bottle of Crown, because that is his best".
222
cylinder porter (A) offers porting for 2 cases of beer
cylinder porter (B) offers only one porting for 1 bottle of Crown Select
cylinder porter (C) offers porting for 2 cases of beer, but you can get upgraded porting to 1 bottle of Crown Select
Cylinder porter (D) offers porting for 2 cases of beer, upgraded porting for 1 bottle of Crown Select, and the his best porting for a Barrel of Crown Select.
Now, our budget can't afford the Barrel of Crown, so we are going to spend 1 bottle of Crown. Where will you get your best value for the 1 Bottle of Crown?
I shouldn't have said "can't afford", because we will spend that much or more next week buying a new car or that new pool. I should say can't justify spending that much (which is OK, I'm not sure I would spend that much on my wife's trail bike).
There seems to be a mindset of "since I can't afford the Barrel of crown, I'm not going with that porter at all, because I don't want his second best. I'll go with the guy who only offers porting for a bottle of Crown, because that is his best".
222
#123
02-03-2006, 08:42 PM
Who to have Port Your head???
I've had several of each DS650 cylinder head porters engines on the dyno (at least anyone I know of that's ports them on a semi regular basis)
I have no self serving pride- I am determined to run the best product on my race bike and recommend those products to everyone who asks!
222
#124
02-03-2006, 09:01 PM
Who to have Port Your head???
Originally posted by: DragonDJ11
Based on everything I have read with porting seems to be onesided. In that you either port for the low-mid, or the mid-high.
Based on everything I have read with porting seems to be onesided. In that you either port for the low-mid, or the mid-high.
That way of thinking kept me from having well rounded engines for many years......Let's see.....do I want to drag race or motocross, or trail ride? Fortunately, design and porting have come a long ways since the sixties! I've still got a copy of Alex Warlordy's Chevy Bible- it's hard to relearn things.
222
#125
02-03-2006, 09:05 PM
#126
02-03-2006, 09:19 PM
Who to have Port Your head???
Originally posted by: RobandDS
222
If you are going to be seeing those kinds of numbers on a stock bore, why buy a big bore? I haven't seen any dyno sheets for 730's showing more than 76 hp. Should we expect new numbers for the 730 that rival the horsepower the 800 strokers you were making a year ago just because of porting and cam improvements?
Wouldn't whatever power you can make with a stock bore by improving the head mean that much more with either a bore kit or a stroker?
Rob
222
If you are going to be seeing those kinds of numbers on a stock bore, why buy a big bore? I haven't seen any dyno sheets for 730's showing more than 76 hp. Should we expect new numbers for the 730 that rival the horsepower the 800 strokers you were making a year ago just because of porting and cam improvements?
Wouldn't whatever power you can make with a stock bore by improving the head mean that much more with either a bore kit or a stroker?
Rob
your 1st question- you know I love cc's.......you haven't yet seen the graph of a dedicated 730 drag race engine or with a lightened drivetrain (more hp at the rear wheels) or twin carbs (added 6hp to the stock bore).
your 2nd question- yes and no.
my question: does it matter where the cc's come from? Are there different things to consider when going big bore compared to stroker only?
#127
02-03-2006, 09:21 PM
Who to have Port Your head???
Originally posted by: 650VIPER
Allred, thanks for that. Very informative. Randall, I hope you were talking about me sitting across from you. Thanks for replying.....
Allred, thanks for that. Very informative. Randall, I hope you were talking about me sitting across from you. Thanks for replying.....
you know I was [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] In fact, I remember sitting across the table from you eating one of the best meals I've had in a long time!
Randall
#128
02-03-2006, 09:22 PM
#129
02-03-2006, 09:25 PM
#130
02-03-2006, 09:27 PM
Who to have Port Your head???
Dragon's assumption is fair. And probably was the case years ago (with the DS especially). My HPR 730 couldn't be more trailable and in that reguard power is power. What I mean is that if good head porting can give you quality gains through out the rpm band, then other things can and will determine trailability. For example, I don't run REALLY big cams because of my physical size. I run a more modest cam so that my motor can be more effective/specific/effecient in my world. Going to FULL RACE cams, say an HPR 5 set, I might do myself a diservice on the trail side. It would probably even hurt my racing in that tq probably wouldn't be built as early, thus getting out of the whole would be labored.
Above is the exact reason to stay with a single builder. Whom ever you choose to lead you in hopefully the right direction, they should be able to tell you exactly what cams, porting, carbs, bore etc. etc. should do for you. It's nice to have the same guy that designs your cams, be the guy who does your port work. Nice to have the same guy who does cams, port work, carb and cylinder be the guy that builds the pistons.
Now obviously, most retailers aren't sitting at the lathe cutting a piston and then talking to you on the phone selling you a carb. But when the retailer actually had a hand in the design and developement.... how can you go wrong.
Reguardless of who you go with, DS parts COST MONEY. HP COSTS MONEY. There are no shortcuts. I wish there where, I'd be a shortcut taken FOOL! Snake oils, $150 porting jobs don't work. We want them to... in a bad way, but sooner or later the reality hits you. And that money you spent on a guy with a dremel tool is money that you could have spent more effeciently somewhere else.
Above is the exact reason to stay with a single builder. Whom ever you choose to lead you in hopefully the right direction, they should be able to tell you exactly what cams, porting, carbs, bore etc. etc. should do for you. It's nice to have the same guy that designs your cams, be the guy who does your port work. Nice to have the same guy who does cams, port work, carb and cylinder be the guy that builds the pistons.
Now obviously, most retailers aren't sitting at the lathe cutting a piston and then talking to you on the phone selling you a carb. But when the retailer actually had a hand in the design and developement.... how can you go wrong.
Reguardless of who you go with, DS parts COST MONEY. HP COSTS MONEY. There are no shortcuts. I wish there where, I'd be a shortcut taken FOOL! Snake oils, $150 porting jobs don't work. We want them to... in a bad way, but sooner or later the reality hits you. And that money you spent on a guy with a dremel tool is money that you could have spent more effeciently somewhere else.