Iceracer-Headed for Glamis? I was just checking the weather, should be nice! I never go there on a holiday weekend though. Some years they have close to 200,000 people show up. Unfortunately, many come just to party, and not for the riding.

We are headed for Ocotillo Wells which is nearby, but more cross-country riding than dunes. Enjoy!

 

The average joe will probably never rebuild the engine because they will probably never see or feel a difference. I dont consider swapping pistons and changing oil a little bit more frequent, high maintenance; to me thats just regular maintenence. I think of high maintenence is something that you have to fix after every ride, like a highly modified engine or just a "lemon" quad. Theres a reason why the TRX and CRF engines are different; they made the TRX engine more recreational use friendly. We're not dealing with rocket science here, it takes a little more intelligence of a monkey to maintain this 4wheeler.

 

changing the oil more often isnt that big a deal. i do think you should change it more often with a higher revving engine like the new 450s. as far as the average joe goes and rebuild frequency, true he might not feel the difference but he might not even get to the point of rebuilding if he doesnt put that many hours on it. honda, at least with the trx version of this engine, wanted to minimize rebuilds for the quad rider.

 

Hondas have a reputation for being bulletproof and reliable, and that is one reason why people buy them. A lot of people are going to be surprised when they have to do a top end at 100 hrs., when they were expecting to go 500+ hrs. This time next year we sill start seeing the posts, from all the surprised folks!

A good example: An aquaintence of mine has NEVER ridden. He lives in the local mountains and will do mostly trail riding, but may do the occasional trip to the desert/dunes. I sent him to the dealer to get a Z400 (first choice) or a 400EX. He likes the look of the 05 Honda, so decided to get that. The dealer didn't have any 05's in stock (and none on the way any time soon), so THEY TRIED TO SELL HIM A 450R. Now, no way this guy with no experience and probably no mechanical ability, should be on the 450. He is a doctor with a very busy practice. You think this guy is going to be out in the garage changing oil every couple of weeks?

 

Since its so hard and all to pull plugs and pour oil. It takes hours for it to drain...

And the CRF is a significantly different engine from the trx: Much lower compression, longer stroke and smaller bore. You arent reaching that high of an rpm, especially compared to dohc atv engines. What is the redline on a z? a ds? a yfz? Heck even compare the redline on the crf vs the trx. You will find that the trx is not the super high tech and high maintenance powerhouse you make it out to be, but rather ordinary in its engine design with the obvious exception of the separate engine/trans oil system. Which, I believe, is one of the best selling points of this machine compared to other high performance atvs. Because the trans isnt dirtying the oil that is used in the engine you can go LONGER between oil chianges because the oil stays cleaner.

 

i dont doubt his technical ability. i work with doctors and many have great technical ability - they have cars, boats, farms, tractors, farm equip, etc that they always tinker with. its the time thing here that gets him. your right, he should be getting a z400 or 400ex. these would be great for him. that dealer is a butthole and just trying to screw him for more markup money.

what you say isnt totally off. honda is reliable and they did detune it from the crf, added a ring for reliability sake. however, the fact remains that the 450's rev higher- even if it is "only" a couple thousand RPMs - its still harder on oil in terms of viscosity and thermal breakdown.

 

I would put the 450 quad somewhere between the higher reving conventional engines (like the Z400) and the dirt bikes. The quad has 3 rings to the dirt bikes 2, less compression, and true it doesn't rev quiet as high, but it still has that pancake piston that isn't supported as well as the conventional pistons are.