Guidance on sport 4-wheeler, possibly 400ex
#1
05-04-2006, 02:01 PM
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Guidance on sport 4-wheeler, possibly 400ex
Howdy folks,
I went riding with a bunch of fellas that were all riding sports this past weekend and wound up rolling my Brute Force 750 down a coal hill. I was trying to keep up with them and "do everything they did" but my Brute, while real powerful, aint no sport quad. It certainly has the power to climb hills but it's a little tall for the real real steep off camber ones. Anyway, I thought of picking up a couple year old sport quad. Hoping to pick a 400 or so for around 2 grand or maybe cheaper that needs some fixin'. I'd love a 450r or YFZ450 but can't afford that much. Whatever I get will get stretched to the limit and beat pretty hard so it's gotta be durable. How's the 400ex compared to say a KFX400 or Quad Sport, or whatever Yamaha would have in that range?
Thanks and God bless,
-BunnMan
I went riding with a bunch of fellas that were all riding sports this past weekend and wound up rolling my Brute Force 750 down a coal hill. I was trying to keep up with them and "do everything they did" but my Brute, while real powerful, aint no sport quad. It certainly has the power to climb hills but it's a little tall for the real real steep off camber ones. Anyway, I thought of picking up a couple year old sport quad. Hoping to pick a 400 or so for around 2 grand or maybe cheaper that needs some fixin'. I'd love a 450r or YFZ450 but can't afford that much. Whatever I get will get stretched to the limit and beat pretty hard so it's gotta be durable. How's the 400ex compared to say a KFX400 or Quad Sport, or whatever Yamaha would have in that range?
Thanks and God bless,
-BunnMan
#2
05-04-2006, 02:21 PM
Guidance on sport 4-wheeler, possibly 400ex
IMO the 400cc quads (400ex and Z400) are the best buy out there for the average sport rider. They can be tame and easier to ride for beginners or riders who take it a little easy, or they can also compete with about any quad out there when pushed by the right rider.
I've owned both the 400ex and Z400, and love them both. Personally, I prefer the Z400(Or KFX400) a little more because it is a little more performance oriented and suits my riding style a little better. The EX on the other hand, is very simular and even better than the Z400 in tighter trail because it can be lugged more. Both are very reliable, and the 400ex is damn near bullet proof.
Descent 400ex's are easy to find for a good price, but there are still good deals on nice Z400's out there, just not as many. If you have any other questions I'll be glad to help.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
*BTW, in case you don't already know, the Z400 and KFX400 are the EXACT same bike with different colored plastic.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
I've owned both the 400ex and Z400, and love them both. Personally, I prefer the Z400(Or KFX400) a little more because it is a little more performance oriented and suits my riding style a little better. The EX on the other hand, is very simular and even better than the Z400 in tighter trail because it can be lugged more. Both are very reliable, and the 400ex is damn near bullet proof.
Descent 400ex's are easy to find for a good price, but there are still good deals on nice Z400's out there, just not as many. If you have any other questions I'll be glad to help.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
*BTW, in case you don't already know, the Z400 and KFX400 are the EXACT same bike with different colored plastic.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
#3
05-04-2006, 05:01 PM
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Guidance on sport 4-wheeler, possibly 400ex
I didn't realize that about the KFX and Z, but I should have given the situation. I've never paid much mind to sports until this past weekend. I ride a Harley (forward controls) and a Brute Force (high seating position) and have never much cared for my legs being tucked up underneath me like they are when I sit on a sport quad. But now the ugly image of my beloved Brute cartwheeling down a 200' coal hill is forever burned into my eyes so a lower CG, much lighter quad seems a great idea all of a sudden! A friend of mine just picked up a Raptor 660 at a great deal and insists that's the machine for the type of ridinig we're going to be getting into but it just seems like a little much torque for a newbie to sports like myself. I must admit I have been spoiled by the smooth and never ending power curve of the Brute and it's belt drive. Fine clutch control on a rocky, technical grade could be difficult with the juice his 660 is putting out. The 400's turn me on a little more there.
Thanks for the quick reply. I have a little time to consider my move as I have a big list of parts to buy to fix the Brute. I could buy a used EX with the amount of money I'm gonna spend on parts! I'll be poking around snooping out a deal for a bit.
God bless,
-BunnMan
Thanks for the quick reply. I have a little time to consider my move as I have a big list of parts to buy to fix the Brute. I could buy a used EX with the amount of money I'm gonna spend on parts! I'll be poking around snooping out a deal for a bit.
God bless,
-BunnMan
#4
05-04-2006, 05:35 PM
Guidance on sport 4-wheeler, possibly 400ex
I used to have a cruiser street bike, and getting off of that and jumping onto my CR250 was the weirdest feeling.
Rappy's are awesome quads and fun to play on, but I honostly feel I can get a 400 to do more than a stock suspensioned Rappy, not to mentiont that the 400's are more durable. I have 3 friends with Rappy's.
Are you keeping the Brute?
Rappy's are awesome quads and fun to play on, but I honostly feel I can get a 400 to do more than a stock suspensioned Rappy, not to mentiont that the 400's are more durable. I have 3 friends with Rappy's.
Are you keeping the Brute?
#5
05-04-2006, 06:09 PM
Red Rider
Honda, accept nothing less!
Honda, accept nothing less!
Guidance on sport 4-wheeler, possibly 400ex
I prefer our EX for really tight, more technical trails. It doesn't mind being lugged down and ridden slowly. The Z likes to rev and requires more clutch work for slow technical riding, so I pick it for more open country. Both handle great, and both mine have proven to be dead solid reliable and of high quality. Of the two, the Z has higher performance and more hop up potential, but all the EX's power goes straight to the ground.
By trial and error, you have discovered what I have been saying for years.........that utilities have some pretty severe performance limits! Even the newer crop of big bore(ing) "sport utes" aren't really all that sporty, and all are "roll over death traps". I consider a utility to be a last resort, for use in snow, or for deep water crossings, or when the rocks get to big. For me, those conditions are limited to high altitude mountain riding, but everywhere else I prefer to be on a sport quad.
By trial and error, you have discovered what I have been saying for years.........that utilities have some pretty severe performance limits! Even the newer crop of big bore(ing) "sport utes" aren't really all that sporty, and all are "roll over death traps". I consider a utility to be a last resort, for use in snow, or for deep water crossings, or when the rocks get to big. For me, those conditions are limited to high altitude mountain riding, but everywhere else I prefer to be on a sport quad.
#6
05-05-2006, 12:34 AM
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Guidance on sport 4-wheeler, possibly 400ex
Yeah, I'm keeping the Brute. I love the thing. I can't get rid of it. I really dig the totally sick power curve! I have a real taste (and respect) for totally obscene power and the Brute 750 sure has it. She does have her weak points, like the high seat position and CG but the power is so inoxicating that she's still a blast to ride. I wouldn't hesitate to take her back up to PA where I spent last weekend, even climb the same hill. I sure won't take the same route up that same hill though [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]. She handled the steep slow technicals really well though, made a steep rocky switchback hill in the woods without much trouble at all that a Predator 500, Rappy, and some other quad rolled down whilst trying to get up...likely rider error as there was another Rappy in the group that made it without incident as well as a Banshee, Z400, 250r. The guy on the Z is really talented and could probably have taken my daughter's LT80 up that trail without any problems. The Spam wordSpam word Spam wordSpam word Spam wordSpam word Spam wordSpam word Spam wordSpam word tor suffered the worst damage of the folks that rolled over on that trail due to the ingition switch getting smashed (I won the damage award for the day later on). We hot wired it with a key ring stuck in the plug that goes to the ignition. Hehehe, I figured out how to steal Predators. Guess my best deal would be on one of them [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] Those technical trails will definately be more of a challenge on a sport with a clutch than they are on my Brute. Once they get tight the sports have the advantage.
There are certainly some limitations to the ute's no doubt. Going in straight lines the Brute would pull the whole pack, but going through tight areas they would lose me. Also I suffered a little roll reversal (no pun intended). Whenever I go on day long rides with my Harley buddies I'm always smiling big at the few friends I have that ride dressers and asking them to carry a few things in their bags for me on the ride. When I'm riding the only Ute with the only rack bag in a clan of sport quads and dirtbikes on a day long ride, I become the pack mule [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
So far it seems I would have to give the advantage to the EX400. I like the idea of being able to lug it harder in the technicals, that would be closer to what I'm used to with the Brute. Does it still have enough top end to get on the hills, jumps and whoops pretty hard? Hows the weight between the Z and the EX? The one Z that was in the pack impressed me this past weekend. The rider was definately impressive so that didn't hurt. He had a HMF muffler which didn't hurt either...being a Harley guy I like 'em loud. Speed wise what's the difference between the two?
Thanks and God bless,
-BunnMan
There are certainly some limitations to the ute's no doubt. Going in straight lines the Brute would pull the whole pack, but going through tight areas they would lose me. Also I suffered a little roll reversal (no pun intended). Whenever I go on day long rides with my Harley buddies I'm always smiling big at the few friends I have that ride dressers and asking them to carry a few things in their bags for me on the ride. When I'm riding the only Ute with the only rack bag in a clan of sport quads and dirtbikes on a day long ride, I become the pack mule [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
So far it seems I would have to give the advantage to the EX400. I like the idea of being able to lug it harder in the technicals, that would be closer to what I'm used to with the Brute. Does it still have enough top end to get on the hills, jumps and whoops pretty hard? Hows the weight between the Z and the EX? The one Z that was in the pack impressed me this past weekend. The rider was definately impressive so that didn't hurt. He had a HMF muffler which didn't hurt either...being a Harley guy I like 'em loud. Speed wise what's the difference between the two?
Thanks and God bless,
-BunnMan
#7
05-05-2006, 10:11 AM
Guidance on sport 4-wheeler, possibly 400ex
Originally posted by: BunnMan
So far it seems I would have to give the advantage to the EX400. I like the idea of being able to lug it harder in the technicals, that would be closer to what I'm used to with the Brute. Does it still have enough top end to get on the hills, jumps and whoops pretty hard? Hows the weight between the Z and the EX? The one Z that was in the pack impressed me this past weekend. The rider was definately impressive so that didn't hurt. He had a HMF muffler which didn't hurt either...being a Harley guy I like 'em loud. Speed wise what's the difference between the two?
So far it seems I would have to give the advantage to the EX400. I like the idea of being able to lug it harder in the technicals, that would be closer to what I'm used to with the Brute. Does it still have enough top end to get on the hills, jumps and whoops pretty hard? Hows the weight between the Z and the EX? The one Z that was in the pack impressed me this past weekend. The rider was definately impressive so that didn't hurt. He had a HMF muffler which didn't hurt either...being a Harley guy I like 'em loud. Speed wise what's the difference between the two?
As far as out right speed, stock for stock there isn't all that much difference, but once you start to mod more and more the Z becomes faster overall. I would try and test ride them if you can, there is suttle differences between them. Either way you can't go wrong, I think they are the best "trail" sport quads out there.
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#8
05-05-2006, 07:20 PM
Guidance on sport 4-wheeler, possibly 400ex
BunnMan,
If you are going to be climbing really steep coal piles, I would recommend the Raptor over a 400ex. I owned a 2001 "One Ride" Raptor for 2 years before getting tired of repairing it in favor of another 400ex. For loose coal, you need plenty of wheel speed. The Raptor can deliver this in 3rd or even 4th gear. The 400ex is limited to 2nd gear. I walked up hills on the Raptor that were quite a struggle for a 400ex - granted mine isn't modded to the hilt.
For 95% of the riders out there, a 400ex is the better choice though due to the low end grunt for riding trails. Put a set of 22" Razr2 on a 400ex in the winter and you would probably never take the Brute Force out again (I agree with everything ReconRanger states). Do not put the 22" on and try to climb the coal piles though. You won't get the necessary momentum and wheel spin you need. I ride in the winter with guys on Honda Foremans and can go more places than they can before they click into 4X4 mode. There are a few steep hills they don't dare try though that I can get up.
The reason a Banshee is still the hillclimbing king is due to its incredible ability to keep the wheels spinning in higher gears. Hill climbing is all momentum which is why 4X4 suck at it. All that weight just gets pulled back by gravity at slower speeds. If you are really super serious about the nastiest hillclimbs, get the Raptor. If you aren't considering climbing hills that you might roll a sport quad on then go for the 400ex. A 400ex is more durable and cheaper to maintain that the z400. Just check the prices on major spare parts and you will see the difference.
/Jon
If you are going to be climbing really steep coal piles, I would recommend the Raptor over a 400ex. I owned a 2001 "One Ride" Raptor for 2 years before getting tired of repairing it in favor of another 400ex. For loose coal, you need plenty of wheel speed. The Raptor can deliver this in 3rd or even 4th gear. The 400ex is limited to 2nd gear. I walked up hills on the Raptor that were quite a struggle for a 400ex - granted mine isn't modded to the hilt.
For 95% of the riders out there, a 400ex is the better choice though due to the low end grunt for riding trails. Put a set of 22" Razr2 on a 400ex in the winter and you would probably never take the Brute Force out again (I agree with everything ReconRanger states). Do not put the 22" on and try to climb the coal piles though. You won't get the necessary momentum and wheel spin you need. I ride in the winter with guys on Honda Foremans and can go more places than they can before they click into 4X4 mode. There are a few steep hills they don't dare try though that I can get up.
The reason a Banshee is still the hillclimbing king is due to its incredible ability to keep the wheels spinning in higher gears. Hill climbing is all momentum which is why 4X4 suck at it. All that weight just gets pulled back by gravity at slower speeds. If you are really super serious about the nastiest hillclimbs, get the Raptor. If you aren't considering climbing hills that you might roll a sport quad on then go for the 400ex. A 400ex is more durable and cheaper to maintain that the z400. Just check the prices on major spare parts and you will see the difference.
/Jon
#9
05-06-2006, 09:56 AM
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Guidance on sport 4-wheeler, possibly 400ex
Thanks for the great run down here folks! That guy on the Z had no trouble with any of the hills he attempted. There were a few of them that I didn't try on the Brute, probably a good thing. I wish I hadn't tried that last one [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]. I flat can't afford a Raptor. A good friend just picked one up the other day at a steal of a deal and I couldn't touch the price he paid for that. Especially facing $1000 in metal parts for repairs to my Brute.
Are there any particular years to look out for in EX's or Z's? Any notable differences in them through the years? It would be cool to find one that's already been modded a bit to save me a dime or two down the road. I'm selling an '04 Harley Sportster 1200 and as soon as that goes I can place my parts order for the Brute. I might be able to talk the accountant into letting me cut out 2 grand for a sport then I hope [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
Thanks again and God bless,
-BunnMan
Are there any particular years to look out for in EX's or Z's? Any notable differences in them through the years? It would be cool to find one that's already been modded a bit to save me a dime or two down the road. I'm selling an '04 Harley Sportster 1200 and as soon as that goes I can place my parts order for the Brute. I might be able to talk the accountant into letting me cut out 2 grand for a sport then I hope [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
Thanks again and God bless,
-BunnMan
#10
05-06-2006, 08:26 PM
Guidance on sport 4-wheeler, possibly 400ex
"sport utes" aren't really all that sporty, and all are "roll over death traps".
but back to the question - id go for the z400. best bang for the buck and mod better. they absolutely can be made to run. the 2004 model is the one id target - especially the black/yellow limited edition one - very sweet looking. and the prices around here are running just a hair over the used 400exs. if buyng new, get the z BUT keep reading and MAKE suzuki fix the problem before you take it home..
the 05 (caried over to 06)had some significant changes such as carb, cam, clutchplates, front shocks, magneisum covers, and more aluminum on the machine, etc.
Now, that may sound great. HOWEVER, the 05/06 models were having problems with the magnesium covers leaking coolant causing serious problems- please do a search and you find out all about it and suzukis fix.
cant complain about a 400ex: my friend has one and my brother has one - it is a good bike and bullet proof and with a 440 and some minor mods they can be very fast and torquey.