http://powersports.honda.com/d...Oil_and_Chemicals.pdf


I notice in Honda's brochure, they are recommending their full synthetic HP4S for 2006 and later models only! Anybody know what happened in 06 and later that made this oil suitable for those years, but not previous years????

Here is my hunch....this product is most likely PAO based. PAO is known to dry up and shrink seals, so perhaps there was a change in the formulation of seals beginning in 06????

Just for the record.....I have been running a variety of ester synthetics (Redline and Maxima) in all my Hondas for the last 10 years! No problems with clutch slippage, leaking seals, or anything else. Some agressive esters can make seals become soft and swell (the oposite of what PAO does), so Redline and Maixma add some PAO to their formulations to "balance" that effect out. PAO and ester complement eachother nicely, in this way!

Also for the record....I have seen a horsepower/torque increase running Redline MC oil! This stuff is a new generation of extremely high tech, wet clutch safe, extremely slick (JASO MB!) oil, thanks to wet clutch safe organic friction modifiers!!! Maxima 530MX appears to have a similar formulation. (There may in the future, be a different JASO category, like perhaps MC, to account for these new wet clutch safe organic friction modifiers.)

 

Also, the oil viscosity charts in the owner's manuals changed in 06. The chart in my 01 and 06 250EX are different (same engine). Gone are the heavier oils like 20W40 and 20W50, from the newer models.

So what did Honda change??? In the old days, it was sano to run heavy oils in air cooled machines because they had slacker tolerances. It took a thicker oil to bridge the larger gaps in the bearings. So, did Honda quietly tighten up the tolerances in all their engines or go to smaller gallies.....or what exactly happened? Just a change in philosophy???? Are they just looking for better economy, to meet some CAFE standard or something????

Another example....my 07 Rancher 420 recommends 10W40 and 10W30 for warmer weather. For colder weather, there is 5W30 and 0W30....but the arrow for these goes all the way up to the warmer temps, like 100 degrees and higher!!! Are they seriously suggesting that someone like me who rides the Mojave Desert, run a 0W30 oil in summer????

 

My 700zz manual comes with both listings with 10w 40 and 20w 40.

I ran synthetics in my 400EX, but honestly have only changed my oil in my 700xx twice, so I haven't had much opportunity to change them out.

When I was at a motorcycle shop recently that was BIGTIME anti-synthetic oil. The way he was talking it would ruin every seal in your engine and raise the global temperature 4 degrees.

He was a Mr. Know-It-All.

 

I have 10 year running synthetic, in everything from the kids 90 to the 450R. Every one runs perfectly like the day it was new. This also goes for the several Yamahas and Suzukis that I have owned, and the one Kawi.

 

Semantics????

Now that I read the brochure again, it isn't really clear to me whether they are just particularly recommending it for 06 and later models, or rather prohibiting it for models earlier than that (????).

Synthetics had some problems in the early days, with seal compatibility and other issues, but these were worked out a generation ago. Trouble is, the old horror stories from back then live on, and with the internet, they take on a new life as they get told again and again....so there are still some newborn misinformed anti-synthetic attitudes out there....along with the old-timers who just can't seem to forget.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: -Gary-

My 700zz manual comes with both listings with 10w 40 and 20w 40.
</end quote></div>

Weird that Honda would recommend 20W40 when they don't even sell it! I'm not aware of any other recent model Honda the specs anything heavier than 10W40. (I took the time one day, to look through all the owner's manuals for as many different models that I could find at the Honda dealership!)

They have 20W50, 10W40, 10W30, 5W30, and 0W30, so you would think they have all their bases covered. Where does a 20W40 fit in????

 

to mention horror stories, all i hear from people is that if you run ANY synthetic oil in a mechine that has had mineral oil in it before it will leak threw the seals. iv never had that happen on any mechine i own with synthetic. but i could see there being a coincidence; say you put synthetic oil in and start looking for leaks, bam you suddenly notice that little puddle in the driveway!