Ruffbuff,

Now that I've shocked you (and your wallet depth) with the "consecutive parts" that <u>can be</u> upgraded to obtain performance gains, please tell us why and where you need more performance power? Sounds like a strange question but as many performance specialists will explain, not all upgrades are the same. Each end/end machine is "tuned" for ones unique riding conditions - not what's shown on a web site.

For example:
- Racers don't care about noise levels. Thus, they can use performance pipes.
- Around the house and minor trail riders (like myself) like using the quiet stock pipe.
- Racers want MAX air input and high RPM engines.
- Around the house minor trail riders want low maintenance / low inspection machines. Thus, they want long term stability and reliability. The more performance upgrades to a mini, the more inspections and tweaking it will require.

Do you do soft sand riding? Do you do hard straight trails with no hills riding? Do you do lots of hills and sharp corners while mostly under 3/4 throttle?

Our '03 Pred-90 is a "around the house" and minor trail riding mini that is often exposed to deep mud and swamp trails that also contain hills. We wanted the quiet stock pipe, we wanted more power under 20 mph for trails (thus sprocket changes) and wanted more bottom end punch (thus big bore kit and 150 PSI engine). We're still running stock pipe, stock carb and stock air box with modified snorkle (for our large mud puddles) and a lighter clutch (faster take off response). A racing machine would have a completely different configuraiton. They are loud, screaming RPM engines that are re-tuned for different race tracks.

As a suggestion, tell us what riding conditions your young rider does, where he/she wants more power gains (re: under 1/2 throttle), etc.

Note: If sharp corners, then I'd also recommend widening the front end (wheel spacers and for best results, 2" wider A-Arms). As many will vouch, a faster rocket needs wider fins to keep it more stable on those sharp corners.

Something to thing about....

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Hey HQR109 (Mark),

Welcome back. I missed reading many of your posts / replies on this forum. You are one of few folks who always brings "smart technical and business sense" to our attention.

Your immediate recommendation of upgrading to a 20mm carb reminded me of my brother-in-laws smart thinking as well. He owns his own auto body shop and like many shop owners, he always has to "think smart". For example: If he has a client who needs its smashed in fender fixed, he'd rather replace with new fender and pain it - instead of spending the time of hammering it out, adding bondo, sending it down, then painting it. From an hourly rate perspective, it's much smarter to replace some parts and simply paint it.

With your 20mm carb upgrade recommendation.... If I paid myself $5/hr and the cost of many Main Jet sizes ever time I have to re-adjust the 16 mm carb in our Pred-90 (for my extreme weather changes), I could have easily bought a 20mm carb, upgraded 20mm intake and a 20mm throttle cable. Much less time adjusting the 20mm carb also equals more riding time, and more time in the house with my kids. Upgrading to a 20mm carb is a much smarter thing to do...

Welcome back and thanks for making us think "smart upgrades" vrs "what can be technically done".

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Spike - you really made me examine what I am actually trying to do. Thanks.
We live and ride in the North East. Public trails and around the house. We ride technical (sharp turns), hills and a lot of mud and water. The mud and water was my original motivator to begin the filter changes. I do not need my son to scream 100 mph as he does not race and I certainly do not want to increase the noise level if I can avoid it. My son's quad (as all "kid" quads are) is 2 wheel drive. I have a 4x4. I just want him to be able to ride along with me in all the fun that I experience. The mud, the hills, some speed on hardpack. If he needs some added HP, I want him to have it so h ecan get out of trouble if necessary. Right now, I want to get that low hanging airfilter higher on the quad. Speed can come later when he gets older.
I am also looking at extended A-arm as you mentioned in your post. Would you also mention an extended swing arm?
I really appreciate everyone's replys to this post. Your interest is very helpful.

 

Water and mud don't go together with a cvt style quad very well. The trans and stator area allow to much water in.

 

But is there a way to minimize it? I can't be the only person who has a child that likes to play in the mud? And when I say mud and water, I don't mean a 7 ft. Mississippi mud bog.

 

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Ruffbuff,

2 stroke minis and water / crud above the running boards don't mix very well. Especially over the long run. Yes, one can drive their mini into water that is above the running boards but over time, the "very expensive" stator will blow and mud/crud gets into its CVT system. Thus, the risk of expensive problems will dramatrically increase the more the more one allows water / crud above their running boards.

Here's a few things to help minimize water / crud problems:
1 - Install a Skid Plate. One can make their own or can buy a store bought "bolt on" skid plate. For soft sand / water, a plastic skid plate can be used. For bush riding (like we do), I'd recommend steel or thick tin. In additing to bottoming out protection and reduce the risk of getting sticks jammed into its belly, the skid plate also reduces cold water from splashing upwards onto a hot engine. Thus, allows longer life out of the engine. For more details of skid plates, surf:
- Press Here for logical design -
- Press Here for finished product -
- one company with "store bought" skid plates -

One way to reduce water / crud getting into the carb is to eliminate the factory air box and install a custom 3rd party air filter under the center hood of the mini. A K&N, Uni, Foam Pod filter can be used. For the hose, PVC, rubber hose or even a vacuum cleaner or large swimming pool flex hose can be used. For a picture, surf: - Press Here -
At this point in time, I've yet to find a performance dealer who sells a "bolt on" product link this. If a dealer on this forum has such a product, please advise. thanks.
Notes:
1 - This air filter is higher off the ground (which is further away from splashing) and thus, less water gets into the system. This air filter system is also between the two front tires. To me, this is a good "low cost" spot to relocate it. In a perfect world, the air filter should be under the seat area - like it is on many adult size ATVs.
2 - An upgraded air filter system will force the carb to be re-jetting. You might get lucky with its factory carb jetting (depending on the air filter brand you use) or may have to upgrade to a 20mm carb. Upgrade the carb because I've been told many times that a 20mm carb is much easier to stablize their jets compared to a much smaller mm carb. And a 20mm carb is less sensitive to altitude and weather changes.


Here's some performance and stability things to keep in mind....

Due to technical trails that include sharp corners, uneven ground and a young rider who doesn't always use "perfect leaning" on the corners, I would widen its front end by 4" (2" on each side). Go with 3" + 3" wider on the front if possible. Widening the front can be done via wheel spacers or by installing wider A-Arms. To me, wider A-Arms are much better because they put less stress on its wheel bearings and front bushings. Many dealers on this forum do sell wider A-Arms for the E-Ton brand. If you do, please announce youself - so Ruffbuff can contact you directly. Note: Depending on your rider's weight and riding conditions, you could possibly go with factory length shocks or go with longer shocks (with off-set shock mounts on the A-Arm bars). Or go with factory shocks now an if needed in the future, install (via local welder) new shock "mounts" on the A-Arms and get longer shocks for the front. This detail must be finalized with the dealer who sells you the upgraded A-Arms and you current riding conditions.

If your young rider is always under 3/4 throttle (like my son), a low cost means to obtain more power is to change its sprockets. A smaller sprocket on the front and a larger sproket on the rear. Custom sprockets means the mini will have more engine RPM for the same ground speed. The same concept of driving an auto tranny vehicle in 3rd gear instead of factory OD. More RPM for the same ground speed means more "momentim" power in the 5 MPH - Wide open throttle range. If wondering, our Pred-90 only does MAX 24 mph (compared to its original factory 33 MPH). For our trails, our average MAX ground speed is 10 - 15 mph. Most of the time, we're in the 3 to 10 MPH range. Thus, I could apply this sprocket changes without any worries of my son complaining that it doesn't go as fast as it did before. For us, we went -1 tooth on the front and +4 teeth on the rear. This change might work for you too.

If changing the sprockets, the chain may have to be replaced as well. It depends if you run out of links on your existing. If the chain needs to be replaced, replace with an HD / O-Ring chain. HD / O-Ring chains are much better for mud / crud riding conditions. They keep more water out and thus, the expensive chain (and custom sprockets) will last much longer.

If you don't have one already, I'd also recommend installing a Spring Loaded Chain Tensioner. We installed a Spring Loaded chain tensioner on our '03 Pred-90. One of the best mods we did to it. For us, we set its chain tension in the spring and once in the fall. When the chain is under firm tension at any Swing Arm position, it also reduces the risk of its chain coming off. For pictures that might work for your E-Ton, surf: - Press Here -
Note: Click on the little thumbnail pictures and they will enlarge.

For better throttle response, investigate the upgrade of its Reeds (performance reed leafs or reed block with performance reeds). Performance reeds allow faster throttle response. Great to have when crossing a stream and immediately after the stream is a small short hill to climb. A lighter clutch will also create faster throttle response - when the clutch engages. Good upgrade to have when you need immediate quick hits of power (without the need for a screeming RPM engine and loud performance pipe).

For more bottom end punch without a loud screeming performance pipe, many like to run a higher compression engine. Average compression is 100 PSI. For us, we upgraded to 150 PSI. It gave our mini more "steady" punch from 0 to 10 mph ground speed. I've been told many times that more PSI engine will gain better results with a slighted higher rev engine. Especially during take off.

To allow a higher rev engine during take off, folks install a lighter clutch, change the weight of its CVT rollers and change its springs. Many trail riders leave the clutch as factory and change their other parts of the CVT system. When these parts are properly installed and "fully tuned", your mini will take off much faster when its throttle is punched. Many say this is a great mod if running is soft sand and/or mushy mud - where more take off power is needed. On dry land, its an instant wheelie machine.

Not too sure if you can afford each of these performance items. But if you plan to keep your mini for 3+ years and/or decide to pass the mini down to a younger brother / sister (or cousin), then over time, these upgrades will be worth it. Pace youself (say ever QTR buy/install a performance part) as you wallet can handle and/or your young rider needs it.

Hope this helps as well....

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Spike - I can't thank you enough. You have been a HUGH help. I certainly appreciate it.
If you do not mind, I would like to be able to Private Message you if I have further questions, if that's ok?

My son and I thank you again!

I'll let you know how I make out.

 

Ruffbuff,

No problem for the "trail rider" tuning info for your mini. If you want, you can send me a PM - for more questions....


For any Trail Riding mini, I'd immediately:
- Install a skid plate. To me, this is a must on all trail riding minis.
- Make the front end wider via wider A-Arms. If wondering, we installed 1.5" wheel spacers on the front of our Pred-90. My son hasn't tipped his Pred-90 since then. I'm sure 2" wider would be much better. Making the mini wider is a dramatic safety improvement.
- Install a Spring Loaded Chain tensioner. To me, all minis (big and small) must come with a spring loaded chain tensioner. The '04, '05 and '06 Pred-90s now come with a factory chain tensioner. Their '03 Pred-90's didn't. Since one factory is installing spring loaded chain tensioners in their base, it means they beleive a tensioner is a great thing to have. Not too sure why E-Ton feels a spring loaded chain tensioner is NOT mandatory for trail riders.


Air Filter improvement / Quick fix - Keep your existing factory Air box, silicone around its box overlap edges (to keep the water out) and replace its long shorkel with a wider diameter snorkel pipe. Something that has a smooth 90 degree elbow on it. If water entry is still a concern, take a rubber hose approx 12" long and attach this hose near the front of your mini's hood area. A larger diameter snorkel pipe with smooth corners means more air into the box. The rubber hose has a smooth bend and helps with air flow movement as well. Much better then athe plastic straw with its sharp 90 degree elbow on it. Yes, jetting will be required to "fine tune" the mixture but it would only be a few minor adjustments. For a picture, surf: - Press Here -

Air Filter Improvement / Better fix - If you can, find a flex hose and move your previous bought uni filter under the front hood area. Cover it with an oiled down sock to help repel water / dirt before it enters the air filter material. When the sock gets too dirty, throw it away and replace with another oil down sock. Proper size flex hose and clamps will be required for this filter relocation. This change will also require more agressive jetting changes. You might get lucky and only need a minor jet change. Or as Mark mentioned above, aggressive jet changes that will be very hard to stablize - unless you upgrade to a higher MM carb.


For the technical type trail riders who don't go above 3/4 throttle, I'd:

- Change the sprockets to be -1 size in the front and +3 or +4 sizes in the rear. This will allow more "momention" power for between 5 MPH and faster ground speeds. Since the rider does NOT drive above 3/4 throttle, lowering the max ground speed will NOT be missed. Getting more momention power under 3/4 throttle is the gain.



Run the above "technical trail rider" changes for the next 3-4 months. If your young riders demands more performance power, then move onto its next set of performance upgrades. For now, I'd focus on the above starter items for an E-Ton 70.


Before doing next set up upgrades (for even more power), one has to ask if the young will out-grow their mini within 2 years, then upgrade to a 90cc? If so and if your wallet depth is limited (like many others), then save the next set of upgrade dollars for a future 90cc. Something like a TRX-90 that is made for water / mud / crud riding conditions. To me, a 70cc is "a starter bike" for around the house riding. 2 strokes are NOT made for extreme wet / extreme crud trails over a long period of time. But, your E-Ton 70 could use the above "trail riding" upgrades to make it better for your riding conditions.


If your wallet can handle more depth and you want to install the next round of performance parts now, then give Billy Holt (or other dealers) a call. His site is http://www.wrhracing.net/contact_us Billy and other "trail riding experienced" dealers have proven performance kits that can be bolted on. For example, surf: http://www.wrhracing.net/engine_kits Do chat with these Performance Consultants before buying any "cooling looking" product off their web site. One needs to ensure its the right part for you, and your unique riding conditions. Don't impulse buy off a web site because "it looks cool". The purpose of any performance parts is to "work for your unique needs".


Talk about needs and wants..... Only upgrade the mini if your young rider can handle the extra power and he/she needs the extra power. For example, soft sand and/or hill climbing. Don't install the extra power because you feel it would keep up to the Jone's and/or you'd like him to have more power. He/She has to be able to handle the extra power first.


Hope this helps as well....

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Spike - What about the spacers? Are they required along with the longer A-arms or as a stand alone upgrade? How about the rear swing arm? Would a longer one with a wider axle also make for a more stable ride. I like the idea of the chain tentioner and I am also looking into skid plates. My first move will be to get crative with air filter.

Thanks

 

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Some folks install only wheel spacers, some folks only install wider A-Arms and some folks install both. We don't have any spare dollars in my family. Thus, we went with "used" 1.5 wheel spacers on the front. (Thank you again Mark). That's all we could afford. If my wallet had some depth and knowing what I know today, I'd install 2" wider A-Arms instead. Wider A-Arms put less stress on the bushings and wheel bearings (compared to spacers). Probably go with 3" wider A-Arms (which would be better) because my kid loves doing donuts and sideways sliding in the mud. Since the shocks on he front of our Pred-90 is very stiff and my son isn't a suicide trail rider anymore, I'd risk using the factory front shocks. Since your brand of mini and riding style is different, you have to decide to use the factory front shocks or longer front shocks with off-set shock mounts on the A-Arms.

For the average "around the house" and minor trail rider with only mild engine upgrades, the stock length of the swing arm is ok. If you have a beefed up engine and want to keep the front end down, then yes - do make the swing arm longer. If you young rider is into steep hills (which I don't recommend at such young age), do make the swing arm longer. But for normal every day riding, the swing arm length is ok.

For less tipping, the quick win is the make its front much wider. If the front is wider, its geomentry support points are further out and thus dramatically reduces roll overs. To add a little more stability, you can widen the rear as well. To me, widening the rear for trails is optional. Some folks use wheel spacers on the rear and some use longer axles. If around the house type riding, wheel spacers on the rear will work great. If into suicide jumps and MX type racing, then a longer axle would be better (IMO). But for now, wheel spacers are a good solution for the rear. From a dollar spent vrs gain perspective, it's much better to widen the front.

If wondering, we run 1.5" wheel spacers on the front and NO wheel spacers on the rear when we drive in our back yard. In the summer during our deep trails, our mini is 1.5" wider on the front and rear. If we had to do it again for our bush trails, I'd go with 3" wider A-Arms on the front and 1.5" wheel spacers on the rear. This configuration might work for you too....

Another trick to help stability (on corners, donuts and going up hills) is to run with 4.5 - 5 lbs in the "rear tires" instead of factory 3.5. Yes, harder tires. On trails, I find that harder tires tend to slide around corners much better compared to softer tires. And the wheels will spin instead of digging in when going up a hill. To me, spinning wheels means it slides. Soft wheels are like magnets on the hard ground and thus, increase risk of roll overs when sliding.

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