I knows it there entry level machine. But Cannondale built there quads for Mx racing so it would be ideal for them to put the 450 engine in the cannibal. The cannibal was built for someone who wanted a moto but could only afford the cannibal (i think).
1986atc250r-I dont think you know what you are talking about. So when your drag racing you automatically start in Mid-range? Coming out of a co. Corner my friend with his 440ex would be ahead a lil then when I nailed the throttle he was behind me The dale has tons of bottom end. I think you should ride one you'll be suprised. Werent you the one arguing with me in the Honda Forum???

MXracer, I agree and disagree about the 450/Cannibal thing. And yes, when I drag race I rev the motor high so you are acually in the mid-top end of your powerband. As for what has more bottom end, who here rides at 1/3 throttle or less all the time?

MXracer98 -

I own both a 416EX and a Cannondale (as well as about 4 other bikes from two other manufacturers). I don't think I was arguing with anyone in the Honda forum.

I am very familiar with the power each develops. I can ride them side by side, in fact I did last night while doing a little testing between the two quads.

Here's a pic of my Honda.

Here's a pic of my CD.

So when your drag racing you automatically start in Mid-range?

Yes, and you only stay there for a moment as you come out of the hole. Then it's all top end - if not, you're likely losing to bikes you shouldn't be. The formula that is used to derive HP dictates that given the same amount of torque, the more RPM you turn, the more HP you develop. Most engines develop more torque as RPM climbs (up to a point - which is higher on a CD or LTZ than it is on a 400EX) Since drag racing is all about acceleration, you want to be in the top end, where you're developing the most HP.

Quads with shorter strokes like the LTZ and CD develop a torque curve that peaks in the higher RPM ranges. Since with engines there is always a compromise (if there weren't, all engines would be designed the same) - you give up some torque in the lower RPM ranges which translates into less power in those areas.

Since the shorter stroke engines lend themselves well to higher RPMs, their camshaft profiles are tailored to make use of this (camshaft profiles are a lesson in compromise). This also causes bottom end torque to drop.

Don't believe me? Call up the nearest reputable engine builder and tell them you want the "biggest" cam available for your stock quad and see what they tell you.

I'm going to leave it at that, already much more time than I wanted to spend in remedial engine design.

I dont think you know what you are talking about

Yeah, you're probably right...


dale has tons of bottom end

No, actually it doesn't. The CD develops almost no power at idle. Once a few hundred RPM off idle, the power picks up nicely and has a good spread all the way to the rev limit. However, it idles at 2200 RPM. My EX idles at 1200-1500RPM and has great power right off idle but runs out on top. My CD engine will not lug - my 400EX engine loves to lug around tight trees and over technical terrain. The CD can be ridden in this terrain, but is much more work & is much harder on the clutch.

The 400EX develops a *lot* more usable power in it's bottom end to mid, the CD develops decent power down low and into the mid, but doesn't really come to life until it gets into the upper mid.

This may not seem like a big deal until you've raced a cross country event on a tight, technical course. Once you do, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

The 400EX's power may not be what everyone needs, nor the LTZ's power, or the CD's power - to each his own. I love both kinds of power, depends on what I'm doing, which I prefer.

Coming out of a co. Corner my friend with his 440ex would be ....

What kind of 440EX was it? Many 440 "Kits" advertised as High compression actually have nearly the same compression as stock - that 440EX may not be developing much more power than a stocker.

Anyhow, I think you missed my point entirely.

ltracerx-
As for what has more bottom end, who here rides at 1/3 throttle or less all the time?

Throttle position has little to nothing to do with "bottom end". For what I use an ATV for (mostly cross country racing), bottom end is VERY important. I can get by with out it, but it's much nicer if it's there.

If you strictly run around in the dunes, bottom end probably isn't very important.

In MX racing, bottom end is nice, but snappy acceleration and top end are more important.

For recreational trail riding a nice spread with a good midrange and good bottom end is important - which, if you'll notice is how most stock ATV's are setup.

Also, you don't need to ride a particular power range "all the time" for it to be important. Just like I don't use the bottom end of the 400EX "all the time", I don't use the top end of my CD "all the time".

ooops boys, looks like someone just delivered a spanking.

He has a pro-fab 440 kit. I consider bottom-end when you take off from a race in 2nd gear.when you shift upwards 3-4 midrange- that gets you threw the gears the more midrange the faster you rev out. So mine and your defintion of bottom-end is very diffrent. If you are talking bottom end only a few hundreds rpm's of idle. I still dont understand your bottom-end analogy. No you dont start in mid-range at least i dont consider it.

1986atc250r, I understand that you may need bottom end, but I could live without "alot". I don't understand how you say throttle postioning has nothing to do with "bottom end" because it does. When you turn the throttle X degrees, you are changing RPM, and where in the "powerband" you are. And when I said "besides, who rides around at 1/3 throttle all the time" I was being sarcastic!

I understand were you would get that the 400ex,ds,and raptor would have alot of bottom-end. They have a longer stroke so they would produce more low-end torque. That's why strokers produce so much more lowend torque. But wheter you state it or no everyone considers bottom-end were you take off the line until 3rd and up. Diesels hae long strokes and tons of torque and only rev up to 3,000 rpm. But it wont out accel anyone out of a corner. Acceling out of a corner is Mid-range rather than bottom end.its not how much power you can make off the idle but how fast you can rev up to get the hp.

Someday it will be possible to have a top-end screamer and low-end grunter in one engine. All it takes is lots of $$$ and time. Infinitely variable valve timing, variable displacement, and programmable ignitions are all keys to the perfect internal combustion engine... I think that it would be fun to be an industrial engineer for a big auto manufacturer... they get to play with all the really cool toys and concepts...

How can you have variable displacement?

let me find you the link... there was an article on that at www.motorcyclenews.com

I may be able to dig up the article if i look hard enough...

here is one cool article (not the one I was thinking of) - http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/d...cumentID=16689

FOUND IT!!!
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/d...cumentID=96070