The Omnibus spending package that Obama signed as soon as it hit his desk contains language that will shut down motorized vehicular traffic in 2.1 million acres of public lands that we pay for! Gee, what a surprise! We (as a country) elected the most liberal Senate and Congress, and the most liberal President. And we wonder why we are losing our rights. We ranted and criticized Obama before the election in hopes of common sense prevailing (although John McCain isn't much better) and now look at what we have. He said he'd stop the pork. He signed it anyway. He's spent over 2 trillion dollars since he got in. When's it going to stop?

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: MooseHenden

When's it going to stop?</end quote></div>

When people like you stop complaining and realize you live in the greatest country on earth.We were a socialist country before Obama.And anyway it's a 2 party system so it's only natural the other party will get elected.

 

You have me wrong scramber400, I love my country. And, I still believe it is the best country on Earth to live. It just hurts to see the government gaining control of banking, the stock market, our public lands, etc. We weren't socialist but are heading in that direction. I hope that the pendelum swings in the other direction. I'm just saying that we were warned. We can expect to see more rights taken away and more government intrusion into private sectors. So far, we've had a non-renewal of gas and oil leases in Wyoming by this administration, pork barrel spending (not that that is something new), and an additional $2,000,000,000 dollars of deficit spending. If they print more money to cover spending the dollar will become worthless and recovery will take much longer. If they raise taxes that is less money in the private sector which will also slow recovery. Warren Buffet (who supported Obama) is having second thoughts about him. I hope that in 2 years we can at least make a change in the House of Representatives. And, I don't mean weak kneed Republicans like we have in New England. I mean true conservatives that believe in the public sector being the economic foundation of this country, not the government. I hope there is a real change in 2 years.

 

Moose, you'll have to excuse him. He's young, and not really the most educated on a political forum.

I agree we didn't have the greatest choices to start with, but the wrong one was definitely elected, from my standpoint.

I can't think of a past president out of all of them who would have thought opening talks with the taliban and Iran would have been a good idea.

Well, maybe Reagan would have. But he would have said he's gonna open up some new dunes for the off road people, as soon as the radiation dies down. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

You always have to wonder if he knew the microphone was on when he said, "ladies and gentlemen, the bombing starts in 5 minutes". Yep, Hillary was over having discussions with China about their boats endangering our signal boats in international waters. I imagine she will apologize for having our boats there instead of sending in a destroyer if the Chinese keep hassling our ships. Pax Americana is the doctrine whereby, we, as the most powerful nation on the Earth, police the oceans of the Earth so that peaceable transit can continue. China is, in my mind, more powerful than Russia right now and the biggest threat for the future. Also, millions of our dollars have just been sent to the leadership in the Palestinian area. Hamas is supposed to use the money to rebuild after their people lobbed missiles into Israel and got the tar beat out of them for doing it. That sends a great message too. Back to domestic policy. They now want to control the healthcare industry. How many billions will that cost. I know it's not perfect but I've been saved from death 3 times in my life. I have friends in Canada where they wait for months to have needed surgeries. England's government controlled healthcare just decided that several life saving cancer treatments are too expensive and won't cover them. No thanks. Leave private industry alone. Every time government steps in to private sector industry it gets worse, not better. With very few exceptions. I can think of environmental laws that kept industries from dumping raw waste into rivers (Nixon), the Internet (military and universities), and the global positioning system (military). I could go on forever about the differences this present government will make to our nation but it honestly gets me depressed. 2 more years. 2 more years... 2 more years..... I feel better now.

 

Wake up sheeple.....

All this Republican and Democrat arguing over the years is nothing but semantics......

They BOTH take away our freedoms but in different ways....... The Democrats strengthen environmental law and gun laws, and the Republicans strengthen drug laws and personal body laws. The fact of the matter is they are BOTH taking away American freedoms and telling us how to live.

Obama is taking away freedom? What the heck do you think Bush did with the bogus "Patriot Act" ? That piece of legislation took away more freedoms, and invaded our private lives more than any 100 pieces of legislation combined. It was a knee-jerk reaction to a bad situation and Bush used 9/11 to push through a totally anti-freedom agenda. So don't kid yourself. That piece of legislation was far more socialist than anything Obama will get passed, period!

As far as Obama turning us socialist.....well so what.... I don't think people even know what socialism means, they just hear a word that is used in a negative fashion so they automatically think it is bad......... Well guess what, there are many MANY socialist programs already running in the USA and have been for decades. What the heck do you think government organizations like the FCC, and the FDA, the USPS really are? They are socialist programs run beyond the hands of the public sector. What about our schools? Yeah thats right, schools are now socialist programs run by....you guessed it..... the government.

The fact of the matter is Obama is a boob just like the rest before him, and those that will come after him. Our presidents are not the ones in control and they never have been. They are figure heads who must bend with the tide of congress or they break and are not re-elected. And make no mistake that once they are elected, their ONLY goal is to get re-elected.

This country has been in trouble for a long time in certain areas. Social medicine is coming, like it or not..... And the reason it is coming is because the private sector has totally destroyed it. Insurance companies and drug companies have totally taken over our medical industry and have ruined it beyond repair. Socialism of the entire major medical is the only way to save it....... People can cry all they want about the potential impact of social medicine, but the facts are that the USA is now ranked WAY down the list in medical care.......we are no longer the masters of medicine we pretend to be and that is the reality of it.....

Socialism in certain fashion is not the end of the world, its not the end of capitalism, its not the end of freedom, its not the end of America. Just because a program is turned social does not mean private sector competition is dead..... The USPS was the only game in town for years, but eventually UPS, FedEx, DHL etc...etc... all popped up doing basically the same thing. There are private schools, and if medicine goes social there will be private medical still. You won't HAVE to use government programs if you don't want to.....

My Wife's family is from Sweden. They are just about totally socialists over there, and you would never know its a bad word talking to them. Sure they pay high taxes, but they make good money, and they have very nice things, nicer than anyone I know here in the USA outside of a few super rich people I know. And they have a lot more freedoms than we do here in the USA. I have relatives in Canada, and shocker, they live pretty free lives too....... We want to pretend we have all the freedom here in the USA but the fact is we don't. The government is constantly in our faces telling us what to do and what no to do.

The wool has been pulled over our eyes and we don't even know it. We are too busy arguing over which side is better to actually see the problems. We all just pick a side and believe everything they say as gospel. 99% of Americans are too lazy and uninformed so they just believe whatever the news tells them and parrot out that information of media spin. We cry over it, but yet we do nothing about it..... 60% of Americans vote for the president, fine, but the president is NOT the person shaping the laws....nope....that is done by your local reps and do you know how many people vote in local elections? Less than 30% in every district in the USA.....so 30% of the people in the USA are controlling the country because the other 70% are too lazy, uniformed, and cannot be bothered. We'd rather watch American Idol and Desperate Housefrows than spend 10 minutes reading up on our local representatives. Then we will complain the the president is at fault for poor legislation...... Obama does not write the bills, he does not draft them.....nope the people who do that were elected by only 30% of the country.......sad but true.....

So people can cry about the president all they want, but until they hold their local reps accountable it is nothing but lip service. And since some of these morons have been on the senate for longer than many of us have been alive says all you need to know about why there has been and will never be any real change.

 

The lunatics have taken over the asylum!!!

 

So which do you want, SS97? You seem to like some things to be socialized and other things not. The Constitution only speaks of a standing military as a reason for taxation. When the government gets into private sector areas we pay for it. Can you tell me if you've been denied medical care in the present healthcare system? I've been without it and had an emergency appendectomy that saved my life. I paid it all back as I could. Took some time but I did it. I got a tonsilectomy within a week of a doctor's appointment where they found my tonsils were poisoning me. I can't complain. My purpose in this thread is to say people should pay attention. My opinion is simple (as is my mind). I vote for the person who most clearly reflects the Founding Father's views on the Constitution. Many times that simply means I have to vote for the lesser of two evils. That's the point I hope to portray. I know I do it imperfectly, but I do try to study the candidates and because of this I fear the direction of this country. But the thing I most fear is judgement, not from any person, but from God. So, we're all entitled to our opinions. Some will stand some won't. I'm not the one to say which will.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: MooseHenden

So which do you want, SS97? You seem to like some things to be socialized and other things not. The Constitution only speaks of a standing military as a reason for taxation. When the government gets into private sector areas we pay for it. Can you tell me if you've been denied medical care in the present healthcare system? I've been without it and had an emergency appendectomy that saved my life. I paid it all back as I could. Took some time but I did it. I got a tonsilectomy within a week of a doctor's appointment where they found my tonsils were poisoning me. I can't complain. My purpose in this thread is to say people should pay attention. My opinion is simple (as is my mind). I vote for the person who most clearly reflects the Founding Father's views on the Constitution. Many times that simply means I have to vote for the lesser of two evils. That's the point I hope to portray. I know I do it imperfectly, but I do try to study the candidates and because of this I fear the direction of this country. But the thing I most fear is judgement, not from any person, but from God. So, we're all entitled to our opinions. Some will stand some won't. I'm not the one to say which will.</end quote></div>

I'm not saying I want socialized medicine, I'm saying it is the only answer left to fix the totally destroyed system. As I said, insurance companies and drug companies have ruined the entire system.

I understand the military is supposed to be the only social program, but as I pointed out there are many things that are already socialized. Schools, postal services, police, fire, rescue, corrections, USPS, the FCC etc...etc..... hundreds of services are funded by our taxes, we are already far more social than anyone wants to admit. Do you want to dump those programs too? After all they are far away from what the fathers of our country would have wanted.

But you seem to not understand how social medicine works. You are insinuating that you'd be denied coverage in a social system but that is not true at all. You are no more likely to be denied than you are now. To answer your question, yes I have been denied medical treatment. I have a knee that is totally wrecked and my insurance will not cover it because it is a preexisting condition. The things you are describing not being denied for are emergency situations and those would certainly NOT be denied in a social system.

As far as not getting timely care by social medicine, again this is a fallacy. I've known people who wait for months in the USA, and I've known people who do not wait at all in Canada and Sweden, so there are things you can cite in every system. This all depends on how big the city is you live near.

The fact is our medical system is already in crisis. There is a lack of nursing, a lack of doctors in rural areas, a lack of specialists in many cities. A social program would correct many of these problems. Not a perfect solution but certainly it needs to be explored before it can be ruled out......

I understand what you are saying and I'm not telling anyone how to vote. But as I said in my last post, it is not the president that you need to be voting for. We all need to get involved at the local level so more than that 30% of voters are controlling our country.