Why not? My ArcticCat500 Auto is sitting at the dealer, for sale, doing nothing. There are some very good features on the Arctic Cat, most as good and a few better than Polaris. But it has some very bad points. My new Sportsman has been a delight and a dissapointment.
The front wheel drive-4x4 system on the new Arctic Cat is clearly superior. It is simple and it works. It is manually engaged by a lever in front of my left knee which engages/disengages the front differential, which is limited slip.
The double A-arm front suspension is classic but
needs to be modified to eliminate the understeer.
This is do-able.
The rear suspension/rear axle is a disaster.
Arctic Cat guys are stripping out these rear ends
regularly and the body roll resulting from this
4-link live rear axle, without an anti-sway bar, is intolerable to the point of dangerous, from the standpoint of the lousy handling. Harvesting a Sportsman IRS, with A-arms,halfshafts,sway-bar, hubs and wheels, and using a matching front differential in the rear, driven off the AC driveshaft is also do-able...but indeed a formidable task.
Meanwhile the Sportsman is sporting an AWD system that is a joke. For all the talk of "true
4-Wheel Drive" just because there is a ring and pinion in front instead of a true differential,
FACE IT, you don't even know if it's in 4-wheel or 2-wheel drive-ever! All this nonsense about
different ratios in order to engage, and wheel slippage. What kind of convoluted system is this?
This isn't just academic. Downhill the things just won't stay in 4-Wheel drive. On smooth hard steep climbs they won't stay in either.
That's two pretty obvious situations when it needs to be in 4x4 and the machine has "decided"
for us that it doesn't. Once the wheel spin/slide
begins, the 4x4 may or may not engage, maybe help,
maybe hurt. When I want 4x4, D**IT, I want 4x4!!
So the Sportsman is heavier, motors are pretty
equal,4-valve water-cooled 500's, AC has an aluminum clutch cover, they both have autos w/EBS,
The Sportsman front hubs could be welded or
locked fairly easily. Gee, if an Arctic Cat front differential just happens to be the right ratio. Or if some aftermarket company would produce a KIT, including a spacer/shim to lock the front hubs and a front differential with a
mechanical lever like the new Arctic Cat to engage the 4x4 via the front differential. A third position on that lever, creating a 2wd/AWD
(limited slip)/4-wheel Lock......Hmmmmmmmmm...
That sounds way easier and cheaper than
building a whole IRS on the AutoCat and getting the thing to handle decently.
The SP already handles great, the new composite clutch cover is a big improvement over the plastic.
It needs a serious 4-wheel drive system, what it has is strictly recreational level, I want serious. Loose downhills, hard-smooth-steep climbs, gee... I live in the mountains of New Mexico,other than sandwashes, that is pretty much it.
Silly Later, Fourlix

SP500, 425EXP, 325Mag, AutoCat 500 For Sale?
ArcticSport, AutoMan, SportsCat, KittyMan500

Meanwhile the Sportsman is sporting an AWD system that is a joke. For all the talk of "true
4-Wheel Drive" just because there is a ring and pinion in front instead of a true differential,
FACE IT, you don't even know if it's in 4-wheel or 2-wheel drive-ever! All this nonsense about
different ratios in order to engage, and wheel slippage. What kind of convoluted system is this?

Fourlix I usually agree with you about 90% of the time with me owning both of these machines and with them being put through some of toughest rideing territory east of the mississippi I don't understand your grief with a few things for one the rear suspension on the AC I find it to have just about the same body roll as the Sportsman but with the Sportsman with the better handling obviously because of the sway bar. But in no means find it dangerous to ride. And on the issue of the 4 wheel drive I really don't have a problem with mine engageing when I need it to it has never failed me yet where 3 wheel drive machines have had trouble. Although I do agree with you on the fact it would be nice to have some kind of system on the Polaris where the front could be locked in, and also would be great for true 4 wheel hold back coming down steep stuff without having to go through the process of having to back up and hold the over ride button...I do find the Artic Cat superior in coming down steep stuff with its true hold back...but I do find some of the facts you present interesting....oh and one more thing you wrote:

?
This isn't just academic. Downhill the things just won't stay in 4-Wheel drive. On smooth hard steep climbs they won't stay in either.
That's two pretty obvious situations when it needs to be in 4x4 and the machine has "decided"
for us that it doesn't. Once the wheel spin/slide
begins, the 4x4 may or may not engage, maybe help,
maybe hurt. When I want 4x4, D**IT, I want 4x4!!

I don't how the rest of the riders will fair on this but I have never had trouble with mine staying in, simply put when it is in a bind it climbs when its not its back in two its as simple as that, the only time I have really found it a problem was when coming down super steep stuff and only 2 wheels hold back...if your bike is doing this you seriously need to get it back to the dealer cause I don't think you will find another owner in here that is having this problem.
In having 2 solutions as you were talking about if you did add a lever to the Polaris to put it into 4 wheel drive, I really find it a pain on the AC every time that I want to put it into 4 wheel drive to have to shift in and out so you see maybe the Polaris system is more superior than you think...what are the rest of your all views on this...

overall i am not really impressed with polaris' 4-wheel drive system. my brother in law has a 1994 polaris 300 4x4. decent machine in the mud but on loose terrain like gravel and rocks it falls very short, especially going up and down hills. i have seen him many times trying to go up hills where he starts out fine, then looses momentum, the rear tires slip then the fronts engage, then then he gets going again. then the process starts all over again. in his own words "my polaris is a death trap going up and down loose hills... you have to stay on the gas way to hard to keep the front wheels engaged" my father in law jokes that the only thing more dangerous than a polaris 300 on a hill is 1962 ski-doo snowmobile where you are stradling the carburetor and it backfires. ride on fellas.......

My sportsman 4 wheel drive works flawlessly, it is the best system out there. I never notice it going in and out of 4 wheel drive, but it always gets me in and out of the mud and up and down every hill that it is pointed at. Better than any ATV I have personally ridden or owned. I don't know allot about the technical parts of it, but I do know from real world experience riding with other 4 wheel drives, that the Polaris is the best system, I have taken my Sportsman in mud that my Honda 300 4x4 had to be towed out of. The true 4x4 on my two Polaris's work perfectly. It is one of the best things I like about my Sportsman even stock I know I am going to get out of almost any situation that quite frankly most others systems would be stuck. I will admit I have never driven an Arctic Cat but have ridden with a couple Arctic Cat 500's. I thought they did great. Mine always stays in when needed and out when not needed. As for slipping then kicking in never have had that happen to me. It kicks in way before the rear tires can actually spin enough to slow down, I am not sure of the ratio but it is not even one whole turn of the rear tires as far as I know. It is true 4 wheel drive due to the fact that when engaged all 4 wheels have power going to them all the time. To me that is true 4 wheel drive.

You make it sound like your sportsman is making a few revolutions of the rear wheels before the front kicks in. That is not how the 4wd is made to work on the sportsman. If paying close attention, you should barely be able to notice any spin of the rear wheels before the fronts kick in. I have never seen a situation where anything got better traction than a polaris. And there is no way to weld the front hubs on the sportsman. You should take one apart and see how it works, or else have someone explain it to you. The only setup out there that can come close to competing with the traction offered by a polaris is the traxter (disregarding the underpowered King Quad).

i know what you mean about having the "true 4x4". i have it on my king quad too. mine has a manual selector to choose between 2x4, 4x4 (limited slip) and 4x4 ( diff. lock). it definately helps in sticky situations. congrats. on the sportsman it is a nice machine.

you don't need 500cc if you are smart about how you drive. it is all in the gearing. don't be pickin' on my king quad!!! :-)

TheArcher, That was funny man

00 400ex
www.geocities.com/cory_14/

I hear different comments about the 4X4 engaging or disengaging improperly. I haven't had this problem myself. However, if you are having this problem, I would disassemble the front hubs and look for obvious problems. Look for anything unusual. The locking mechanism is very simple. Just pay attention to how it comes apart. This will also help you to understand how it works. The only system I like better than this is the Suzuki King Quads 2X4 4X4 and 4X4 Lock But if the Polaris system is working properly it is better than any limited slip and in some ways even better than the King Quads.

Greg

Put a differential on a Polaris and be a 3wd like all the rest?I hope you have better ideas than that.

Stop!

The Archer,

Once again somebody does not understand how 4WD functions on a Polaris ATV. The rear tires do not have to "spin" for the 4wd to work.

I put my Polaris on a trailer that has a 12" height differential from the pavement. The quad is put in 4wd and crawls up the ledge without rear wheel spin.

If you check out the difference in gear ratios between the front and rear axles of a Polaris, you will find that there is a 16% difference in gear ratios.

There are 360 degrees in a circle. 16% of 360 is 57.60 degrees; less than 1/6 of a tire revolution.

Revolution or rotation not spin.

So after the rear tires rotate 1/6 of the tire diameter or 57.60 degrees the front tires will engage.

Please do not perpetuate the rumor that the rear tires of a Polaris must be "spinning" before the 4wd will engage.

BTW, have you ever been in the position where you cannot find the right gear/range on your King Quad? One gear is too high and then you have to down shift and can't get the wheel speed to clean the tires?

(Avoid the "sinkhole" on the Red Top Trail)


Enjoy your machine.

sounds like i am wrong....let me rephrase that sounds like my brother in laws machine is messed up.( and i am wrong) maybe all you polaris fellas can lend some advice then. on this specific machine the rear wheels spin, yes spin, not slip and then the 4 wheel drive kicks in. is their some kind of mechanical failure or could it be an old design. again we are not talking about a brand new sportsman here. we are talking about a 1994 polaris 300 4x4, and it is very tired. it has had a rough life and needs to lay down and die. let me tell you what when you start it it sound slike it did just lay down and die!! any words of wisdom?

yeah i have a few experinces with the being in the wrong gear at the wrong time. when i am crossing the river nile or something to that effect i use super low range and the third gear.( with the diff lock.) if i start to bog down i can drop one more gear and still get enough wheel spin to clean the tires out. if i do get stuck using that setup i am in way over my head and it is time to pull out the winch anyway. :-) (if you want to read my lastest "way in over his head" story take a look at the where to ride section under red top trail) i am a hunter first and a off road rider second. i use my machine for animal recovery more than anything and because of how the hunting seaon fall and where i hunt i usually don't have to go through much mud to get to the animals. trees, rocks and logs on the other hand....... later felas

Having just retired a 1995 Sportsman 400 I know where you are coming from. Because the 300 is also a two stroke like the 400 it is very easy to spin the rear tires while accelerating. In fact that was one of the reasons I loved the machine. The straight axle and the acceleration. Nothing like power sliding on a desolate forest logging trail.

But... that quad would also climb onto my trailer without "spinning" the rear tires. Maybe you are only observing the 300 in the dirt.

hard to say........

this thing is a piece of work thogh. you have to read off the magical swear word list if you want to have any prayer of getting it started.

how would a guy even begin to trouble shoot this problem? is the system electrical or mechanical?

I would agree that either your 4wd must not be working correctly, or you don't even own one and just wanted to do some polaris bashing. I own a sc500 4x4, but I believe the system is the same as on the sp500 and I have never experieced any of your problems. I truely believe that Polaris does have the best 4wd set-up around. I drive mine in mud, steep hills, hardpack, swamps, sand dunes, then add a layer of snow and frozen lakes and it gets real fun. I rarley get stuck, and when I do it is usally my own fault not the bikes. So if you are truely experiencing these problems take your sp500 back I'm sure the warrenty would cover any repairs. But if you are just disappointed with your polaris 4wd go to honda page, I'm sure those tractionally challeged rancher guy would love to hear all about it.

pay a little closer attention to my posts.

first of all i stated several times it is not my machine it is my brother in laws'.

second, my signature says i ride a suzuki king quad

and finally i never bash other peoples machines. we all work way to hard all week long to get to the weekend for some riding. what ever brand you sit on is wonderful and the best machine in the world is the one that smiles at you when you load it on the trailer. my only goal here is to have some friendly conversation and try to help my brother in law fix his machine. the only mudsliggin' i do is on the trail with my little billy goat. no hard feelings.....

My reply was to fourlix not you archer, fourlix sounded rather rude in the way he described the Polaris 4wd, Archer, you sound like you know what your taking about and said it in civil talk, not Know it all jargon. no offense intended archer

excuse me, i did not mean to jump on you. thanks for the reply. happy trails....

To TheArcher, My dad up in cloquet, minnesota also
has the 1994 300 4x4 non named atv. up untill about 1 month ago or so. He still had the old factory tires on his machine. Since I bought new rims and tires, my dad now has my polaris factory 25 inch tires that came with my 2000 xpedition 425 cc 5 speed. My dad has noticed a big change(improvement), in how his atv is just by putting on better tires. rangerchet

What do you guys think about ATV Magazine saying that the Traxter Has just as good or better 4x4 system as Polaris. Are they wrong? Has anybody driven both machines, tried both of them out in the mud. I don't think anybody can truely say ones better than the other unless they have really tried both machines. Right or Wrong?

Archer...I owned that same exact model up till 3 months ago. I never noticed the rear wheels spinning except for very loose dirt. 2-strokes will do that. I even had all 4 wheels in the air and they spun exactly the same amount...no more, no less in the rear... It must be a mechanical problem then. That quad was my first and it went through hell and back!
It was the most amazing quad...until I got my Xplorer400 and did not want to sit on that slow ride anymore... just goes to show us how much things improve in 4 years...

i took a look at the traxter. it was a nice machine but it is huge. i am not sure of the mesurements but it felt quite a bit widder than any other machine i have ever ridden and this includes sportsmans and foremans. my biggest concern was how well it would fit down the trail. when i trail ride i move from side to side and kind of pick my own path along the trail. with the traxter i thought i would end up following the ruts because it is so big. you are right though, it is not right to point fingers or climb up on a soapbox unitl you have worn both sets of shoes.

Nice clean posts fellows nobody calling anybody liars or wimps seems some certain other riders get defensive when you are just asking questions for curiosity simply that not bashing just wondering what other peoples views are on things. Getting back to the subject I have heard various remarks fellows on the engagement of the 4 wheel drive of Polaris machines and I have to personally say fellows I never can tell when mine goes into 4 wheel drive and goes back out, I really do feel people who are experienceing this have something wrong with there machine. If you really want to feel your Polaris be it the Sportsman or other model and know that the 4 wheel drive is working get it going up something steep pin the gas so that you get the back tires spinning and turn the 4 wheel drive switch on and I assure you, you will then find out what true 4 wheel drive is as you start to orbit the space station. If you don't know what I am talking about DON'T TRY THIS AND READ ABOUT THIS IN YOUR MANUAL this is the only time I truly think you will feel the engagement of your Polaris. No trouble with mine fellows and I must say it is some rough as h#ll rideing here in WV I have went some places I shouldn't have went and still made it and that was with a rider on the back. And touching on one part of the original post I really didn't understand fourlix is you talk about the stability of the rear end of the AC as you must realize the rear end of the AC is not true IRS it is what is called semi independant suspension and I really can't say and I ride pretty wild that I ever had a problem with the handling of the AC. I really don't think the AC would truly need a sway bar cause it is not as loose as system as far as stability as the sportsman so it is really hard for me to find where you claim the AC had such bad handling also this would make a very interesting topic for the AC arena those guys over there are pretty grown up and like to discuss different things unlike some people who in other forums think you are putting something down every time you ask a question about their precious machine...maybe I will make a post over there to see what opinions we can come with but I must say I have never noticed any ill handling on the AC from speeds going 10 to 60 mph on the trail or on the hard top but lets see what the Artic Cat guys say...

To atving, I think one important change to your last message is needed before someone tries it. Your note to spin the rear tires then put it in 4x4. Your polaris. My manual says thats the main way to damage the awd system. My manual says I can put my atv in 4x4 while moving as long as the rear
tires are not spinning. We dont want some one to damage there awd system.. I dont know what the answer is either. My polaris dont do this. I agree with the people that think there is something wrong with his polaris if it acts like that. I posted a note above that my dad has the same identical polaris atv. 1994 300 4x4 non named atv.
He has my factory xpedition 425 cc tires now. His atv does not act up like thearcher was describing.
rangerchet

Archer,
ask Ecorman [ IN THE SUZUKI FORUM] if you dont really need a 500cc if you are smart about how you drive?

He[rides KQ to] has tried and failed EVERY time at this one hill up north that the bigger 450cc and 500cc quad 4x4s make every attempt.The KQ simple does not produce enough wheel speed in ANY range for this steep,loose packed and twisty hill.There is just NO replacement for wheel speed on these type hills.You can have all the power you want [which the KQ does] but it does you NO good on these type of hills without wheel speed.====Bill

I must be the lucky one,I have never had a 4x4 problem from either my 99 Sportsman or my 00 Xplorer in ANY circumstance.It is my opionion that the Polaris AWD system is second to none,I have never had it fail me,ever.I've gone in mud that stopped limited slips in their tracks quickly.I am a very big fan of the Polaris AWD system.

THOR,
thank you for clearifiying what I have been saying for two yrs now.
Rear wheels do NOT need to spin to acheive AWD status on the Polaris AWD systems.====Bill

If you don't mind the weight, the traxter is the bomb! I have a 2000 SP500. Afriend of mine who is a 25 year old master mechanic, won lots of national automotive competion has riden mine, traded his very new Yam. Kodiac for the traxter and thinks it has no competion,except for the weight. I trust his opinon.

Hugh.

If you want to email him, email me and I will give you his address

SCDolphin@aol.com

I must be lucky too. mine has never failed me, either on my Xplorer 250 or my Sportsman, it always works the same way every time Flawlessly. Same with me , other atv's are stuck , I go through sometimes back up through the mud hole and go again, while the others spin. Unless they are other Polaris quads. It is the best 4 wheel drive system in a atv, no doubt about it.

Fourlix here, just back from the dealer who said my 4wd on the Sportsman was just fine. The 425Exp was also just serviced, that's the one that made it up the 2 foot nearly vertical headwall, smooth, hard granite without any problem.2Sportsmen finally made it, awkwardly-jumping and lurching to the top on thier second attempts. The Arctic Cat had crawled up the week before. Momentum was impossible, the first 2 feet being so steep, hitting it at any speed would be like running into a wall. Any wheel spin
even 1/6 of a wheel spin would be a loss of traction, and result in a slide, maybe a catch-a jerk. Smooth even power on all four wheels is what is called for, and that's when the Polaris system reverts to 2wd.
Is the trick
getting it into 4wd and keeping it there just before you need it? Living with subtleties is better than
re-inventing the wheel. But I'm telling you, half the guys in this Forum know what I'm talking about and the other half don't have any problem with the 4x4 at all. Mud guys don't count, there is obviously wheel spin in mud and that's exactly what Polaris need to engage. It is when the wheels need to be going the same speed, like on hard smooth or loose downhill, and you don't want the wheels to be different, you can't afford to lose traction even for a 1/6 of a turn, that the Polaris system lets you down. By nature of its
design it has decided for you.
Do you know when your Polaris is in 4x4?
I think some work better than others.
Somebody else was talking about aftermarket
manual locking hubs, inconvenient, but serious stuff.
Silly Later, Fourlix

This is no put down. If I can not honestly discuss a problem/concern with MY POLARIS on this Forum then what is the point? Nobody said anything about this being the Polaris Fan Club Forum.
Intolerance of honest critisizm/speculation
is as offensive as mindless bashing.

Hey fourlix do you have a digi that you can take a pic of this place for us...either your dealer doesn't know that your machine is having trouble or it is some condition I have never encountered here in WV...I have not seen a spot yet that I couldn't put mine in low and ease right up...matter of fact you know the trails here are simply roads cut on hillsides so I have actually just stuck my sportsman to the side of the hill and set it almost vertically with no lurching, I mean it just went straight up to a point I thought it was going to flip back, I have done this a few times just playing around and one time I just about did it to good with me having to leap forward to grab the front rack. I know you do have a problem and I hope you get it straightened out but I just don't see how you can have so much trouble with the bike engageing and I really don't even go into the bit the guys were telling you about putting it into low and spinning the tires before you start something steep...good luck and hope you get it figured out.

atving-I think you are right. There's got to be something wrong. Why else would the 425EXP make it right up, as easily as the ArcticCat?
I don't think there is any difference in the 4x4.
The Polaris 4x4 system is the same for both isn't it?
Did you see the article in the latest ATV Action where they take the Bomb Traxter XT up "the
SLEDGEHAMMER"? They had done this with a super-modified Grizzly, and this was the first time a stock machine (Stock with winch, which they had to use) had ever made it up this very knarly, boulder infested trail. High centering, slick rocks, extra slick from jeep transmission fluid,
and very steep slabs of granite make it nearly
un-do-able.
A Sportsman with bigger tires and locked hubs
would stand a good chance, as the traxter didn't have enough ground clearance to get over some of these worst spots.
Meanwhile, I'm going to go back to my spot as soon as the Fire restrictions are lifted, and
do this little F**K of a hill a dozen or so times,
till I get it and the Sportsman figured out.
By the way, the dealer said they test the 4x4
by chaining it to a tree and watching the wheels spin. From what everyone has said, I think it could be expected to go into 4x4 in that situation.
You know, don't get me wrong here. I love the sportsman, that rear suspension is the closest thing to a Formula One that I'll ever own. And I am just nit-picking, but I did find a chink in the Sportsman's armour, and I'd like to
resolve it.
Proposing to hybridize a Sportsman with an Arctic Cat got the expected response, and isn't that part of the fun too?

Silly Later, Fourlix

SP500,425EXP,325Mag, AutoCat FOR SALE

Well fourlix man I hope you get things figured man I hate you are having such a hard time but as you said that is what these forums are for when you said crossing an AC with a Sportsman I own both and like features from both but really find myself riding the Sportsman more...The artic feels more stable going up steep stuff and has better hold back going down steep stuff but the sportsman has better pulling power going up really steep stuff and in mud and a more smoother ride...testing to see if the front end is engaging by chaining the atv to the tree sounds kind of primitive to me have you thought of letting a second dealer check your bike. I will tell you one thing that will make you feel better maybe, I was riding a 95 sportsman you know the one with the chain drive in front and back and when backing it out of the truck onto a very steep bank seems I could feel the reverse kick in on this bike like you have been talking about so now everybody don't think it is your imagination. I definetly has a funny kick to it when the front end engages and the feeling wasn't right when I first pushed the over ride button either I had been holding it in as I was easing it out of the truck up onto this steep bank...I will be able to tell more about tomorrow as I am going to take it on a pretty big ride in the morning...

i here you on the king quads need for more cc's. i like to dish out some trouble once in a while. :-) of all the guys i ride with we all have always had 300 cc machines, then one guy bought a honda 450. he used to say how much more power he had and how impressive his new foreman was. we all joked and said he had freudian issues and that was why he had to get a 450. i will admit that if suzuki came out with a king quad with a 400cc or a 500cc engine i would buy it in a heart beat.

you are right about the wheelspin. i got stuck this weekend in a mud/clay pit because i could not spin the goop out of my tires.

have a good one bill......