OK Guys - I'm going to sacrifice my quad to the quad gods pretty soon unless I can get this problem fixed. Been going on for 2 years now... very frustrated... and it's still leaking.


Late 2010, noticed Demand Drive fluid leaking onto the inner rim of the front left wheel. Tore into it, figured it was the hub seal... R&R it - thought I was good. Headed off to Hatfield McCoy and discovered the hub was still leaking! This seal was p/n: 3610019.
http://forums.atvconnection.com/pola...rque-spec.html

Got back from the trip, did some reading on here. Realized that there was also an inner seal (p/n: 3610028)on the inside of the strut. Ordered the seal, started tearing the bike down again to replace it... realized it was more of job than I wanted to get into when I couldn't get lower A-arm free. Put it all back together, took it to the dealer - told them to replace it. $200 and a week later, it was done... but so was the riding season. Quad sat all this winter & I just went out there today and the hub is dry, and oil all over the rim again! <insert multiple cus words>

So, I jacked the front end up, pulled off the tire.. cleaned up the rotor & exterior of the hub... re-filled the hub up with fluid, and let it sit for 2 days with a clean paper towel directly under the hub. I just went back out there and the hub fluid is clearly running down the inside face of the rotor and down. Inside of the strut was dry, but everything is also pretty recessed in there too.

So, any one with experience with leaky hubs -- hub fluid leaking down the inside face of the rotor means which seal is leaking? The hub seal? 3610019? When I replaced this seal, I did not have a real press.. I think I carefully used a block of wood and hammer... or possibly a vice. (I forget - been a while.) Is it possible that this hub seal just isn't seated right and needs to be replaced again?

Appreciate any help - really fed up with this leaking hub issue. I know if I take it to dealer (again), they're going to want $400+ to replace both seals - AGAIN.

 

That's why you have to have a press to install a hub seal properly.Plus it's always best to replace the hub and strut seals at the same time. I hated to have to go back in when I was already there!Learned that first off. Even with a block of wood and a hammer if the edge of the seal becomes distorted it will leak. Another cause even if the seals are installed properly are worn seal sleeves on the cv joints.(usually would leak back side of the strut area) I've had to replace a few of these over the years on pesky leaking seals along with worn coil sleeves also(another source of leaking around the rotor). They have to be heated and pecked off. Same on installing a new one,heat it and use a block of wood and a hammer to seat it around the cv joint. Item #2 is the cv seal sleeve. Dirt Cheap Yamaha, Honda, Arctic Cat & Polaris OEM Parts & Accessories – Cycle Parts Warehouse Most machine shops,dealers can press hub seals on for little or nothing for you. I never charged on pressing hub seals for people. It's a two minute job! Torque on the hub nut is 12 foot pounds!

 

Thanks. So it sounds like the next step is to pull off that newer hub seal, and replace it with a new one that's been properly pressed in... and hope for the best?

Is the CV seal sleeve the metal "race" that makes contact with the interior of this hub seal? When I pull the hub (again), I'll give it a good look over. The fluid is leaking very slowly (about 1/2 the hub over 2-3 days)... all on the interior of the rotor. Really don't want to get into taking the CV out!

Anything else I look at replacing while I'm in there? I'll tear into it either tonight or in the morning and see what I find before ordering parts.

 

The cv seal sleeve actually contacts the strut seal and would leak behind the strut if bad. More than likely your problem is just the hub seal is distorted causing the leaking. When you pull the hub off just look at the awd coil sleeve(where the hub seal rides) and feel around it for any grooved places. Slight wear rings are normal on the sleeve. Then just have the seal pressed on and torque it to 12 foot pounds. Drive it for a few miles to break the seal in,then let it sit and check for any leaks.

 

Your changing part#23. I did it once it was not that hard of a job.

 

Ok,

I tore the hub off this morning. It seems pretty clear to me that it's the hub seal that's leaking based on the location of the leak, since the strut seal is much further in-ward than where the leak is (rotor).

I was very careful in removing the hub seal making sure to never mar the hub surface, but it appears someone was less gentle at some point. It may have been me a few years ago... or someone before that - unsure. You can see this marring in the first 2 pictures. The mars are not that deep, but my fingernail does catch on the edges. Would small very minor marring on the hub surface where the metal part of the seal makes contact cause a leak like this?

I also see some wear rings, OPT, on what you refer to as the "AWD coil sleeve". You can see the rings in the attached pic. The most interior ring, closest to the bearings, looks to be very minor - I don't feel a groove at all when running my fingernail over it. However, the other 2 more outward rings (closest to the blue) certainly have a small dip when running my fingernail across them. Is this normal, or does this AWD coil sleeve need to be replaced too when I replace the hub seal?

 

Armature seal sleeve needs to be replaced,grooves look deep! Hub's not in the best of shape at the top,but the new hub seal should solve this. The seal sleeve is critical on replacement! Must be siliconed on after the old one is tapped off(don't damage the strut like the hub already is!) and clearance must be flush with the inner strut pole or no more than .001 clearance. Use a straight edge to check measurement all around. If you don't have a manual on this a cheap pdf will explain.Plus looks like grease around the hilliard?? The hub does a have a wear ring down deep,but hopefully it won't leak. If it does after all the work has been done,a new hub may be needed? I've had to replace them before and they're not cheap!

 

Yea, thought you were going to say that about the sleeve. The grooves are fairly deep (I don't have a set of mic's to measure). We have a lot of sandy trails up here - probably doesn't help matters. That replacement part is #13 in diagram TLC posted, correct? I'll have to find/buy a repair manual. Looks like it taps out, but I'd assume you need to heat it up to loosen the blue silicone? Then is it a friction fit for the new one, or does just the silicone hold it there?

So, new sleeve (#13, 5222193) and hub seal (3610019). Need to get the sleeve seal pressed in.

The hub itself is about $250 (!) online, although there's a new one on Ebay for $130. (Which is really ~$110 since I need the $20 seal anyway - and it's already pressed in.) I don't think the fluid was leaking between the hub and seal friction fit.. it looked pretty tight and dry when I pulled this seal out. Do you think I just buy the new hub anyways though... or give it a shot with the existing? At this point, I'm more concerned with getting this thing finally fixed vs. saving $100. If I do go with the new hub, can I just use the existing bearings? Or do I need to get all of those races replaced too & new bearing?

The wear ring deeper inside, like where the hilliard would be is just a coloration - no wear groove at all. And yes, that is a lightweight white/clear greese that the dealer used between the hilliard and the thin black backing plate/washer behind it... almost to hold it in place while sliding the assembly on. (There's only been ~1 mile ridden since the dealer replaced that strut seal.) I thought there was supposed to be grease put in the inner rubber lip of the hub seal where it contacts the sleeve, right? But no where else.?.?

Let me know what you think. I'll order parts this weekend (just want your view on replacing the hub or not) and I'll figure out a plan to get the new hub seal pressed in. At this point, I'm hoping that the leak is coming from those deep grooves in the sleeve!

 

Yes on #13 and seal. Be careful with heat around the seal sleeve as you may damage the strut coil. Take a small sharp punch and carefully tap all around at the back of the sleeve to remove it without gouging the strut casting. At times the plastic face of the coil can crack,so be aware you might have to replace it also! Cycle Parts Ware house is cheaper than most online parts sources. As far as the hub the metal part of the seal rides where the damaged area is and should hopefully be ok. You can take a small dremel and lightly smooth out the rough places on the hub. P.S. The dealer should have caught the worn seal sleeve!!

 

I got a hold of the service manual, but it doesn't cover how to replace this sleeve. After looking at it closer, I'm not sure how you get a punch behind that sleeve to tap it out... seems that the strut is in way. Do you just cut the silicone out and wedge a wedge punch/screwdriver between the edge of the sleeve and the strut housing and pry it out? Service manual also doesn't cover the alignment/tolerance well.

I also looked for some online videos showing someone replacing this sleeve - no luck.

Debating on whether I keep going, or just put it back together w/o the seal and take it to (another) dealer to do.