The release of the Yamaha Raptor got me thinking. A lot of people like the new machine - as a general sport quad it will no doubt be a great machine. But I notice a lot of people lamenting the fact that the factories still have not released a new racing quad like the 250r. With the DS and Raptor the trend seems to be bigger is better. True the Raptor was not the quad MX racer's were hoping for, but are there alternatives? Canondale keeps us hoping but lately I have serious doubts we're ever going to see product from them. With aftermarket frames from Roll, LSR, and other' why not build the ultimate MX or woods quad yourself? Yes, yes it is quite expensive to go aftermarket, however is it really that much more? My 400ex cost me almost $6000 by the time you add in tax, license, etc. Right now all I have done is add nerfs, holeshot mx tires, rims, handlebar, air filter, jets, and pipe. So now I'm up over the $7000 mark. To be truly competive I need shocks, motor mods, axles, sprockets, a-arms, etc. Now I'm slowly approaching the 10k mark - plus I have this pile of stock parts nobody wants because they're all doing the same mods to their 400ex's. I notice that Last Rebel Racing sells complete aftermarket quads for $13-14K. If one was willing to do a lot of the work themselves you could no doubt do it cheaper. I'd just like to see what people's opinions are - perhaps I'm out of my mind. I'm thinking of capping the mods to the 400ex and building an aftermarket quad over the winter.

 

Let me fill in a few blanks you forgot. To compare these, you have to compare factory new to aftermarket new. First of all, Last Rebel went out of business and I do not believe the Rebel Star is available any more. I never actually saw one and I attend all of the GNCC's. Heard there were a few in the stadium races out west but were not competative. Secondly, you will usually still need a factory bike to get all the parts you need unless you can get lucky and find it used somewhere and still in decent shape or buy it new.(remember, we are comparing new to new) Lastly, we just built a Roll Design woods racer over the winter from the ground up with all new aftermarket parts other than the transmission (rebuilt), brake systems(factory new), radiator( factory new), wiring harness(factory new), plastic(factory new)and various other factory only parts(all new). Total price - a cheap $20,000. By the way, the bike is for sale if anybody is interested. It was on show in the ITP booth at the dealer show this past Feburary.

 

I have thinking about the same topic for the last week or so with the release of the new Raptor.

I think that the lack of factory support over the last ten years in racing, has left the door wide open for the aftermarket people. Some one needed to build the quads for the pro’s, since the supply of 250r frames are low. Now I think the major manufacturers have given up on the racing market. Not to mention, if they did produce a race ready quad, it would have to around or slightly over 10k to be “pro” level. Some people would gladly fork over the cash, if it was worth it. But then the 80’s come a haunting back and the manufacturers do not want to see it happen again. Would you?

Over the last year or so, I have really gotten in to MX racing. Now all I had was a Banshee, and I longed for a better MX quad. This winter I brought a 89 250r with a ton of aftermarket goodies. Pretty much everything but a new frame. By the time I am done rebuilding this new racer of mine, I will have spent about 7 grand.

Over the last couple of days, I have come to realize that I do NOT want the manufacturers to produce a true MX pro level quad. I fear the lawsuits will start all over again, and big brother will start up. There are enough aftermarket people producing parts, that it is starting to get competitive.

Take frames, there is Leager, Lone Star, Roll Design and Arens. There may be more, but these are just off the top of my head. Leager has seem to have the strong hold on the market, but now I am hearing more of the other brands winning. I think as the racing gets back into the public eye, more people will start build ultra high performance quads of there own out of aftermakrt stuff. And I think this battle will start to cause price wars (or hope at least).

Take motors, Travis Spader is using a powervalve from Duncan. CT has one too, I think. All the motor guys are busy at work trying to make there guys win. And we can only reap the benefits. Remember, Win on Sunday sell on Monday.

Overall, the release of the 400ex, and now the Raptor has made me see the light. If I want a TRUE pro class quad, I will have to go to the people that have stayed with the racing during the last 10 years. The aftermarket. When I am done racing and want to just ride on trails, then I will look back to manufactures. But until then, let my wife decide which new brand name to buy.

 

Excellant points Mike and I agree completely. By the way, they was a new frame called the Predator at the last GNCC. It was on display only and looks to be a basic copy of Lagear. Priced at $5000 for a rolling chassis and painted bright orange. Suppose to be able to produsce 5 per week. Also the Walsh frames are out now but from what I hear there is quite the wait, just like the other three you mentioned.

 

Hey, you guys are talking my language! I just swithed from bikes to quads and I am in the need of some information. My wife rides a Banshee and I have never paid it much attention until just recently. Now that I need a quad I started riding it more and find the handling to be lacking. I started budgeting/saving to build an aftermarket chassis 250r when all this Raptor business started. I don't think the raptor is for me, but what can I do to a Banshee(short of a Laeger chassis) to make it handle for an aggressive play rider. Will +2+1 A-arms, wider rear axle and quality(tcs, pep, axis)shocks be a wise investment? Whatever, I am going to wait until DEC/JAN time frame in case the Cannondale is great or Kawasaki comes out w/something good.

 

I raced my stock suspension banshee all last year. The only mods were Paul Turner mid range pipes, K&N, Denton dampner and Razr’s all around.

I saw a lot of Banshee’s at the MX track. A few were more tricked out, but the best rider on a Banshee (now one the GNC tour) ran a stock frame. I know he had aftermarket A-arms and shocks and such. This year he upgraded to the Lonestar Banshee/250r chassis.

I found my Banshee to be VERY lacking in the suspension department. That is why I brought a 250r this year. The shocks would fade out extremely fast and could not stand the punishment of the sand at Southwick.

I would go with the +2 +1 a-A-arms and wider axle. I have a set of TCS shocks for the 250r (have not tried them yet) but from what I have heard, they would be great. I would have done these mods for this year, if I was going to race it again.

 

Thanks for the input. At this point I am exploring all my quad options. The Banshee has a great motor, and if the suspension/hadling could be made descent, I would consider going that route. I am also considering a used 250R, but I really hate to see the prices so high on a 11-14 year old machine. The Cannondale is an option if it ever arrives and can prove itself(it looks very promising), but I am really hoping Kawasaki will quit messing around and build the quad we all want.

 

I think the decision is yours. I decided to stop trying to mod the Banshee, when I really wanted to race a 250R. I know the 250R will out handle the Banshee on the MX track, proven to me last year. But I seriously wonder if I will miss the power of the Banshee.

My 250R is not longer even close to stock. Never planned on it being so. I wanted something to start me on the path of building a TRUE race machine. I asked a lot of questions last year about how to build an MX Banshee. It seemed like it could be done, but a good amount of money. When this 250R fell into my lap, the decision was easy.

I agree that the Cannondale look sweet. Only thing is the aluminum frame. If that can hold and the motor pulls, look out.

As far as which way to go for a race quad in the future? If you’re truly in love with the motor in the Banshee, upgrade that and wait to see what is released in the near future.
I took a fairly nice 250R and just took everything apart. I may have spent a lot of money that was not necessary, but now my quad is about as new as it can get. And I have not yet even given it a test ride!

 

Thanks for the input. I sure hope Kawasaki makes my decision a little easier.

 

I'm not sure I understand all the talk about the manufacturers building a pro level racing quad, the glaring point seems to me to be that they never did. Back when everyone had factory teams they all used tons of one off works parts mixed with aftermarket parts. Nobody produces MX bikes ready for the track either. We've always been looking for the best sport bike with racing potential. During the "dark years" we had no options, now we do. The aftermarket industry is stronger than ever thanks to the lack of new machines over the years but I think we will see more and more production based (Frames and motors) machines on the tracks going forward. Kawasaki's machines are definitely coming, (whether its one or two is open for speculation) Suzuki will not pass up on the money that we are all willing to spend. You'll certainly see Raptors in the woods and likely at grand Nationals too, Winning Races sells machines which is why Kawasaki resurrected Team Green. Hopefully they are learning their lessons well and we'll all be imressed when their machines hit our shores.