Hello All,

First time posting here. I just bought a 2003 Rubicon primarily for trail riding but hopefully it will also be able to perform one task and that is to launch our 19 foot ski boat (2000 Reinell open bow model 184). I'm guessing the weight of the boat and trailer at between 3000 and 3500 pounds. It is kept year-round at a lake in Arizona and it is about 1/3 of a mile from the parking slip to the launch ramp. The road leading to the ramp is all gravel and has a grade of about 15% (worst case) with one rather sharp turn at the bottom. The ramp is about the same 15% grade but is all concrete.

I chose the Rubicon due to its great reputation for low speed pulling power, excellent engine braking, and over-all reliability (my other choice would have been a 2002 Prairie 650 for about $500 more, similarly equiped). As a comparison, I presently also own a 2002 Bear Tracker 250 which launches a 1998 Yamaha XL1200 3 seater waverunner following the same route as described above (estimated at about 1000 pounds with trailer). But there's no way I would attempt to launch the boat with the Bear Tracker as the waverunner puts it right at its limit with the hardest part being pulling it out of the water up the ramp due to it being 2 wheel drive only.

My question is: has anyone ever tried this, or something similar? Is this even do-able or is it crazy to attempt this? I can adjust the tongue weight by loading the boat further back on the trailer (with it all the way forward it's about 120 pounds). The trailer has surge brakes but I don't know how well they work. Do you think the bigger problem will be controlling the boat while descending the hill or while pulling it up the hill? The first time I try this I might attach my pick-up to the whole rig via tow strap for emergency back-up with my wife driving the pick-up (rear of boat trailer going down hill, front of quad going uphill).

Does anyone have any words of wisdom before I attampt this? All answers are appreciated - real experiences would truly be great!!! Don't be afraid of being overly detailed in your responses either - I want as many details as I can get!

Thanks In Advance!!!

MXF

 

I've used my '02 Rubicon to pull a 18ft runabout up and down a gravel driveway without any trouble. I've never gone any distance like you describe, but that shouldn't be a problem. Pulling it up a mild grade shouldn't be a problem but be sure and go slow on the downhill section and while backing it. I would use the pickup idea the first time just to be sure. (A drowned Rubicon would be a bad way to start a day on the lake).

 

3,500 pound boat vs 600 pound quad.

Bad, bad idea. If you back down that 15% ramp at anything more than a sloooow creep, the boat and trailer will drag you into the lake. Your only saving grace will be that as soon as the boat starts to float the trailer will loose most of its momentum so you may be able to regain traction with the quad and stop while still in shallow water. The surge brakes will not work - since the boat/trailer outweighs the tow vehicle by such a great amount the tongue of the trailer will keep a steady pull on the ball hitch - this means that the surge brakes are not activated.

Pulling the boat out will be less of a problem. Just use low range and keep things slow and steady.

Bottom line is that the quad can pull the boat, even though it's way beyond the quads listed tow limit, but there is no way to safely stop the thing as the boat can easily push the quad and rider with all four wheels locked up.

Jaybee

 

Hook your winch (note: buy one if you dont have one) to something before you try to back into the water.

 

Thanks for the responses so far guys!

Great idea on the winch - the Rubi does have a 1700 pound QuadBoss winch which I will hook to the trucks hitch when backing down the ramp and pulling the boat out. A little math tells me that a 3500 pound load on a 15% grade would be the equivalent of about 608 pounds of pure straight line pull, so I don't think I'll over-tax the winch or the Rubi's frame in any way (15% grade = 8.5 degrees, sin 8.53 = 0.1483, (3500 + 600) x 0.1483 = 608).

When I back the Waverunner down the ramp with the Bear Tracker, I leave the quad in first gear and let gravity back the rig into the water. It's really not much load at all but you are right that as soon as the Waverunner starts to float, the load goes to almost zero, with the whole rig coming to a stop on its own. I will try this same method with the Rubi - Low Range, ESP in first gear, so if it does start to go backwards too quickly I can give it some throttle.

I forgot to explain that the reason I don't use the truck in the first place is that we also keep an 8000 pound, 24 foot trailerable houseboat (1974 Seacamper) up at the lake parked next to the ski boat and Waverunner. Hooking and unhooking trailers and swapping out hitch ***** (from 2 inch for the ski boat and Waverunner to 2 5/16 inch for the houseboat) gets to be a real pain, especially in 110 degree Arizona heat.

I'll definitely post the results after I try it next weekend.

Thanks Again,

Marty

 

We pull our travel trailer and our ATV trailer. If we, for some reason, have to do seperate backing, we just drop the travel trailer and swap out the hitches. Changing hitch ***** is a major pain, but simply sliding the hitch out of the back of the travel trailer and putting it in the back of the pickup is easy. Most of the time I'm able to back both up.

But this boat situation is different. I'm on the same side as jaybeecon55 on this one. With all this mathmatical figuring, it sure sounds like you're right on the 'edge' with it. Any wrong move and your ATV is going to be a submarine (or boat anchor). It's the downhill that makes this an 'iffy' situation. Good luck with it though - and have someone nearby with a movie camera just in case there's $10,000 in America's Funniest Home Videos waiting...[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

I could see myself doing this

I own a 19' Cuddy cabin boat but it only has a 4cyl engine so I think my boat would be less weight than your ski boat. I can pull my boat up and down hills pretty well. I took it down a gravel road with a good 8% grade and stopping was not a problem, nor was coming back up the hill with the boat. The Grizz did spin rocks all over the boat when I tried to speed up but 4x4 solved that problem [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]


If your boat ramp is a wide one maybe you could drive forward down the ramp then make a "U" turn at the waters edge and head back up then jackknife the boat into the water to minimize the amount of auctual backing you need to do on the steep incline.

As far as pulling the boat out of the water this is the hardest thing you would encounter. It takes a TON of power to lift a boat out of the water, low range and keeping it slow you might get it done.

I'm interested in your results



edit: I have also seen people with hitch ***** on the front of their pickups for launching boats and stuff, is this a possiblity? With a front bumper hitch mounted on the front of your pickup you could back a boat up no problem at all

 

I'm back from the lake and am very happy to say that the Rubicon towed the ski boat with power to spare, performing beyond my expectations! Going down hill was not a problem at all - kept it in low range, ESP 1st gear and the engine braking kept the speed to about 4 mph on the worst hill (about 250 feet long at 12 to 15% grade). I tried the brakes on the downhill just to make sure that I could stop the boat and they worked great.

The scariest part for me was backing the boat down the ramp (which I measured at about a 10% grade). I was about to start down when I remembered the posts about being on America's Funniest Home Videos - and pictured myself flying wildly out of control into the lake. It was at this moment that I remebered to put the drain plug in the boat - without which I could have been in the running for the $100K grand prize!!! So I backed down, keeping the Rubi in 1st gear, letting gravity slowly do its thing, using just the brakes to keep the speed at about 1 mph. Every 10 feet or so I would give it some throttle just to make sure I could still go back up the ramp.

I eventually reached the waters edge and eased the boat in until she started to float off the trailer bunks. I then pulled her out of the water and all the way back up the big hill, and just to make sure, I repeated the whole process one more time. I would have to say the hardest part is going up the long steep hill - but even then it seems like the Rubi's only at about 80% of max capacity. I never had to peg the throttle all the way, and never once did the tires ever spin out (front or rear). But I will say that I would not want to attempt this with any heavier load.

I re-estimated the tongue weight at about 150 pounds so now my biggest fear is whether or not this amount of weight will cause long term damage to the hitch or axle since it is only rated for 30 pounds. It did not appear to bend the hitch and did not cause the suspension to sag too much (only about 1 or 2 inches). I could reposition the boat on the trailer to lighten the tongue weight, but I think the way it is now is maximizing the traction. Any thoughts on this are welcome.

Aside from towing the boat, here are my other comments about the Rubi's performance in general. Keep in mind this is a 2003 Rubicon with just over 3000 miles and about 220 hours:

Transmission: I love all the different options this set-up allows. Low Range ESP for total control when working hard, Low Range Auto for slow to medium speed trail riding and High Range, D1 Auto for cruising on dirt roads or smoother trails. The Low Range Auto is great for situations where you normally would do a lot of shifting between gears such as approaching a steep, off-camber, rutted hill at a relatively high speed. In this case, where you would normally be in 3rd or 4th gear and then need to progressively shift into a lower gear to stay in the power band, the Low Range Auto maintains the perfect power band engine rpm - such that when you need the power to start climbing it's all there instantly. You never get caught losing forward momentum because you didn't donshift far enough - or you downshifted too far. This also leaves you free to concentrate on handling/manuevering the machine up the hill so you can throw your weight around without having to worry about keeping your left foot hooked into the shift lever. Along with this, the full floor boards are really nice - on my manual shift Bear Tracker I would occasionally have a broken tree branch poke up past the foot pegs against my anlkes - the full floor boards prevent this.

Full Time 4x4 and steering effort: At first I was concerned due to all the posts on this subject. My personal take on this is that the Rubi's steering is very light and responsive. It does feel a bit different than my two wheel drive Bear Tracker in that on the Rubi it feels like you are being pulled around by the nose rather than being pushed from behind (kind of like a front wheel drive car in snow) This actually inspires confidence on tight, winding trails. On a level gravel parking lot, it is difficult to slide the back end around - although it can probably be done if you really nail the throttle hard while turning but then you also risk tipping over. The one thing I did notice is that when acceleratng up a hill, the front end tends to wander a bit from side to side since the front tires don't have as much traction as the rear due to the weight shifting rearward while climbing - but this is very minor and outweighed by the rail-like steering control when rounding tight curves. Bottom line for me is that it would be nice to have the selectable 2x4 to 4x4 option, but for trail riding I would probably just leave it in 4x4 since the steering is very light and the amount of control you get is very impressive.

Center of Gravity: The Rubi does feel very stable - more so than my Bear Tracker does on the same off-camber trails.

Engine Braking: Very impressive, especially in Low Range. Like others have noted, it feels like the Rubi can read your mind, applying just the right amount of braking force. Truly awesome for controlling a heavy load down a steep hill.

Power and Speed: I've had a chance to ride several Prairie 650s, some Grizzly 600s (unfortunately no Grizz 660s) and I would put the Rubi between the Prairie and the Grizz 600 in accelaration. It doesn't give quite the rush of power as the Pairie, but it does have a good snap to it and even more so in Low Range. For me at least it's plenty quick off the line. I never tried to determine the top end, the fastest I went was about 38 mph, but I know it easily had a lot more left - I'm just not really that into high speed since where I ride, anything over about 40 mph starts to get a bit risky. As far as sheer power - again, it rather easily pulled my 19 foot open bow ski boat up a 15% grade - I don't think you can ask for much more out of a 600 pound ATV!

Reliability: have only had it for 1 week so I can't say.

Issues: I did notice the following problem: Every once in a while it will run real rough so that when you rev it up it barely increases in rpm, and it makes a horrible clanging sound. Shut it off and restart and it runs perfectly again. This first happened as I was about to take my boat down the steep hill for the first time after having circled the relativley level parking lot to allow the Rubi to warm up. I came to a stop at the top of the hill with the engine idling in Low Range ESP 1st gear and was just about to start the descent, when it started acting up. My first thought was that I had broken the transmission somehow since it wouldn't move either forward or back. I put it in neutral and the loud clanging sound was still there so now I thought maybe it was something in the engine. I shut it off and back on and it still did it.

Well, my heart sank siince I had purchased it AS IS with no warranty. So I unhooked my boat, got my pickup and pulled the boat back to the parking spot, then went back to get the Rubi. When I fired her up this time though, she ran great in neutral, and when I put her in gear she ran smooth with plenty of power and absolutely no sign that anything was wrong at all. I'm guessing that it was some kind of electrical glitch since obviously a major mechanical break-down can't just repair itself. This happened again a few more times but only upon start-up, never again while running. Everytime this occurred, I would just shut her off and restart and she would run fine. So if anyone else has had this happen to them or heard of it - I would appreciate any comments. I might just place a separate post on this problem here and on the Honda board.

Well that's about it - sorry if this got too long! Thanks again for all your responses.

Marty

 

Clanging sound? Maybe the valves need to be adjusted?