Just got my 700r off the Dyno!!!
#11
02-09-2006, 04:50 PM
Just got my 700r off the Dyno!!!
I think part of the problem you guys are running into is the fact that if you compare dyno charts between the 700 and the 660, the 700 makes more power ealier than the 660. The very bottom end is where the main advantage is. The trouble a bottom end biased machine has climbing the hill is the gearing is usually too low. I had this trouble with my DS and I fixed it with significantly higher gearing (17/40) I also have an '06 700R and I put 22's on it and picked up a whole quad length on the hill just with that. I am running ITP sandstars (granted they are not the best drag tire) and I still have to much spin and an overabundance of torque. As soon as they make one, I will be putting a larger front sprocket on.
My DS has a similar power delivery and the taller gears made me much faster on the hill (2-3 QL) It allowed me to hook up my tires without going with so many paddles also. That helped the motor run the taller gears in the upper gears.
No 10" wheels. Run 8" wheels with bead to bead 22's with about 9 paddles. Run higher gears and shift ealier and you will be highly impressed.
Setup is just as important as hosepower, I think.
My DS has a similar power delivery and the taller gears made me much faster on the hill (2-3 QL) It allowed me to hook up my tires without going with so many paddles also. That helped the motor run the taller gears in the upper gears.
No 10" wheels. Run 8" wheels with bead to bead 22's with about 9 paddles. Run higher gears and shift ealier and you will be highly impressed.
Setup is just as important as hosepower, I think.
#12
02-09-2006, 05:01 PM
#14
02-09-2006, 06:29 PM
Just got my 700r off the Dyno!!!
Originally posted by: DuneMe
Simple answer is yes!
Detailed answer:
Air isn't what decreases power at higher altitude. . . less OXYGEN is what leads to reduced power at altitude.
As you go up in altitude the molecules of oxygen in air become less tightly packed (i.e. further apart). As a CFM (Cubic Foot per Minute) of air flow (how it is typically measured) moves into the cylinder there are less molecules of oxygen in the cylinder. Combustion occurs between molecules of oxygen and molecules of gas. If there is less oxygen you need to de-fuel to prevent a rich condition (too much fuel).
In burner combustion the de-rate for altitude is about 4% per 1000' ASL (Above Sea Level) - Usually the de-rate doesn't start until you reach about 1000' or 2000'. So, at 3000' de-rate should be about 4% to 8% (that is if de-rates on engines are the same as boiler de-rates.
Originally posted by: trialsrider172
i dont mean to be stupid, i'm just trying to learn something new...my question is, what makes the horse power more/less at different altitudes...does it have anything to do with the amount of air that can be sucked in or something else?
i dont mean to be stupid, i'm just trying to learn something new...my question is, what makes the horse power more/less at different altitudes...does it have anything to do with the amount of air that can be sucked in or something else?
Detailed answer:
Air isn't what decreases power at higher altitude. . . less OXYGEN is what leads to reduced power at altitude.
As you go up in altitude the molecules of oxygen in air become less tightly packed (i.e. further apart). As a CFM (Cubic Foot per Minute) of air flow (how it is typically measured) moves into the cylinder there are less molecules of oxygen in the cylinder. Combustion occurs between molecules of oxygen and molecules of gas. If there is less oxygen you need to de-fuel to prevent a rich condition (too much fuel).
In burner combustion the de-rate for altitude is about 4% per 1000' ASL (Above Sea Level) - Usually the de-rate doesn't start until you reach about 1000' or 2000'. So, at 3000' de-rate should be about 4% to 8% (that is if de-rates on engines are the same as boiler de-rates.
I fly for a living, and in short its the lack of pressure that is causing "less" oxygen in the motor. The SAME amount of oxygen exsists at altitude, but there is not enough pressure to use it.
At sea level you are going to get pretty much the Maximum pressure and there for oxygen.
.................from 0-10,000ft you have the greatest pressure differences, after that there isnt much of a difference. Try riding your sea level jetted machine up at about 9-10k ft, it most likely will die, due to NO air getting into the motor.....or not enough anyway to go with the fuel your trying to mix with it!
......You ever climbed a mt above 10k ft, adn you start huffing and puffing and breathing hard. Its NOT that you "cant" breath, and its NOT because there isnt the same amount of oxygen, its because there isnt enough pressure!
......by the way, I am not disagreeing with what you said, just adding to the point and making it "easier" to understand!
#15
02-09-2006, 06:41 PM
Just got my 700r off the Dyno!!!
Originally posted by: 135boom
I fly for a living, and in short its the lack of pressure that is causing "less" oxygen in the motor. The SAME amount of oxygen exsists at altitude, but there is not enough pressure to use it.
At sea level you are going to get pretty much the Maximum pressure and there for oxygen.
.................from 0-10,000ft you have the greatest pressure differences, after that there isnt much of a difference. Try riding your sea level jetted machine up at about 9-10k ft, it most likely will die, due to NO air getting into the motor.....or not enough anyway to go with the fuel your trying to mix with it!
......You ever climbed a mt above 10k ft, adn you start huffing and puffing and breathing hard. Its NOT that you "cant" breath, and its NOT because there isnt the same amount of oxygen, its because there isnt enough pressure!
......by the way, I am not disagreeing with what you said, just adding to the point and making it "easier" to understand!
Originally posted by: DuneMe
Simple answer is yes!
Detailed answer:
Air isn't what decreases power at higher altitude. . . less OXYGEN is what leads to reduced power at altitude.
As you go up in altitude the molecules of oxygen in air become less tightly packed (i.e. further apart). As a CFM (Cubic Foot per Minute) of air flow (how it is typically measured) moves into the cylinder there are less molecules of oxygen in the cylinder. Combustion occurs between molecules of oxygen and molecules of gas. If there is less oxygen you need to de-fuel to prevent a rich condition (too much fuel).
In burner combustion the de-rate for altitude is about 4% per 1000' ASL (Above Sea Level) - Usually the de-rate doesn't start until you reach about 1000' or 2000'. So, at 3000' de-rate should be about 4% to 8% (that is if de-rates on engines are the same as boiler de-rates.
Originally posted by: trialsrider172
i dont mean to be stupid, i'm just trying to learn something new...my question is, what makes the horse power more/less at different altitudes...does it have anything to do with the amount of air that can be sucked in or something else?
i dont mean to be stupid, i'm just trying to learn something new...my question is, what makes the horse power more/less at different altitudes...does it have anything to do with the amount of air that can be sucked in or something else?
Detailed answer:
Air isn't what decreases power at higher altitude. . . less OXYGEN is what leads to reduced power at altitude.
As you go up in altitude the molecules of oxygen in air become less tightly packed (i.e. further apart). As a CFM (Cubic Foot per Minute) of air flow (how it is typically measured) moves into the cylinder there are less molecules of oxygen in the cylinder. Combustion occurs between molecules of oxygen and molecules of gas. If there is less oxygen you need to de-fuel to prevent a rich condition (too much fuel).
In burner combustion the de-rate for altitude is about 4% per 1000' ASL (Above Sea Level) - Usually the de-rate doesn't start until you reach about 1000' or 2000'. So, at 3000' de-rate should be about 4% to 8% (that is if de-rates on engines are the same as boiler de-rates.
I fly for a living, and in short its the lack of pressure that is causing "less" oxygen in the motor. The SAME amount of oxygen exsists at altitude, but there is not enough pressure to use it.
At sea level you are going to get pretty much the Maximum pressure and there for oxygen.
.................from 0-10,000ft you have the greatest pressure differences, after that there isnt much of a difference. Try riding your sea level jetted machine up at about 9-10k ft, it most likely will die, due to NO air getting into the motor.....or not enough anyway to go with the fuel your trying to mix with it!
......You ever climbed a mt above 10k ft, adn you start huffing and puffing and breathing hard. Its NOT that you "cant" breath, and its NOT because there isnt the same amount of oxygen, its because there isnt enough pressure!
......by the way, I am not disagreeing with what you said, just adding to the point and making it "easier" to understand!
#16
02-09-2006, 06:49 PM
Just got my 700r off the Dyno!!!
I when I drove a 700R, it was at 384 ft. It was way too slow. All the power is in the low end where it does the least good. You don't get an excillerating power band like you get on a YFZ450 or 660R or Geo Metro. One word to sum up a 700R is..... BORING.......
I think Yamaha tuned it low because they are using the same connectiong rod as the 660. Just a hunch.
Don't get me wrong, the new 700 is a very nice bike. It's just more suited for chicks.
This is just my opinion of course.
I think Yamaha tuned it low because they are using the same connectiong rod as the 660. Just a hunch.
Don't get me wrong, the new 700 is a very nice bike. It's just more suited for chicks.
This is just my opinion of course.
#17
02-09-2006, 06:52 PM
Just got my 700r off the Dyno!!!
Originally posted by: MasterRaptor
I when I drove a 700R, it was at 384 ft. It was way too slow. All the power is in the low end where it does the least good. You don't get an excillerating power band like you get on a YFZ450 or 660R or Geo Metro. One word to sum up a 700R is..... BORING.......
I think Yamaha tuned it low because they are using the same connectiong rod as the 660. Just a hunch.
Don't get me wrong, the new 700 is a very nice bike. It's just more suited for chicks.
This is just my opinion of course.
I when I drove a 700R, it was at 384 ft. It was way too slow. All the power is in the low end where it does the least good. You don't get an excillerating power band like you get on a YFZ450 or 660R or Geo Metro. One word to sum up a 700R is..... BORING.......
I think Yamaha tuned it low because they are using the same connectiong rod as the 660. Just a hunch.
Don't get me wrong, the new 700 is a very nice bike. It's just more suited for chicks.
This is just my opinion of course.
WOW....prepare for the flaming!!!! In all honesty, I am pretty happy with our 700 but whats funny about what you said about it being for chicks, is the 700 is my ladies bike.......I ride the little 'ol 450!!!!
I think the 700 is the best for what it is amde for....an open class trail quad, with tons of low end power and torque!!
#18
02-09-2006, 06:57 PM
Just got my 700r off the Dyno!!!
Very interesting. I never knew that. Out of curiosity, what causes there to be more pressure at sealevel? Is it gravity?[/quote]
.....well to be perfectly honest with you, I am not certain. Maybe that one guy is though, since he seems to know everything.....what was his alias........"sandman" or something. Do you remember that? He was trying to tell me about my job and my quads!
In answer to your question, I do believe it is gravity. I have just picked up knowledge from first hand experience and training. A lot of time in a pressure chamber and flying! When I first found that out I thought it was pretty interesting too!! Your always jsut told, "its because there isnt any oxygen", and that statement alone is false!
#19
02-09-2006, 07:04 PM
Just got my 700r off the Dyno!!!
Actually it is the column of air that goes from the earths surface out into space. If you were to plot a 1" by 1" grid and moved around like the "can you hear me now" guy it would continually change in relation to the elevation you were at. You would get the most air pressure if you measured a column of air in Death Valley where it can be below sea level. More column=more pressure.
CRR
CRR
#20
02-09-2006, 07:10 PM
Just got my 700r off the Dyno!!!
see dsnut, thats why I said I wasnt sure......I figured someone on here would actually know. I just fly through the stuff! I never new that though "coyoteriverraptor", that is interesting to know, as I too have kinda always wondered why pressure is greater at (or below like you pointed out) sea level. I just knew due to oxygen requirments and basic weather stuff that pressure was less and less as you went farther up, and that 0-10k was your greatest differential.
.....interesting, thanks for the additional info. Now "duneme" is really going to think were picking what he said apart. Sorry, that was not my intention, I was just adding!
.....interesting, thanks for the additional info. Now "duneme" is really going to think were picking what he said apart. Sorry, that was not my intention, I was just adding!