grizzly
 

my friend and i had a discussion on horsepower????? he thinks his foremen 450 has 12hp and my grizzly 660 about the same . anyone have a clue???????????????

grizzly
 

No...

My Wolverine 450 has 26hp so his Honda should have around the same and I think the 660 has around 50hp.

grizzly
 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: grizzhog

my friend and i had a discussion on horsepower????? he thinks his foremen 450 has 12hp and my grizzly 660 about the same . anyone have a clue???????????????</end quote></div>


My Briggs & Straton snowblower has almost 12 hp. I think the 250cc ATVs have more than 12hp.

grizzly
 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: ss454

No...



My Wolverine 450 has 26hp so his Honda should have around the same and I think the 660 has around 50hp.</end quote></div>

I'm assuming you're referring to crank hp right?

grizzly
 

originally posted by 2fast4urass on dec 17th

Can-Am Outlander 800__61.7 hp
Can-Am Outlander 650__55.4 hp
Kawasaki BF750 Carb___50.1 hp
Sportsman 800_________50.1 hp
Kawasaki BF750 EFI____49.8 hp
Suzuki KQ700__________48.5 hp
Yamaha Grizzly 700____45.6 hp
Sportsman 700_________44.3 hp
AC 700________________41.4 hp
Kawasaki BF650________41.4hp
Yamaha Grizzly 660____40.9 hp
Can Am Outlander 500__40.4 hp
AC 650 H1_____________39.3 hp
Honda Rincon 680______38.5 hp
Suzuki KQ450__________36.7 hp
Sportsman 500 EFI_____36.0hp
Sportsman 500 HO______34.5hp
Honda Rubicon_________33.9hp
Arctic Cat 500________32.0hp
Sportsman 450_________29.7hp
Can-Am Outlander 400__28.9hp
Honda Foreman 4x4_____26.9hp
Honda Rancher 420_____26.1hp
Yamaha Grizzly 450____26.0 hp
Yamaha Grizzly 400____26.0 hp
Yamaha Big Bear 400___22.9 hp

Figured id share this i got it from another fourm and says these numbers come from the crank and not the wheel's..if anyone wants ill link em to the site...</end quote></div>

I dont know about the accuracy of these but having ridden with a lot of these wheelers the comparisons seem fairly accurate.....

grizzly
 

You can look up HP numbers on the California Air Resources Board (CARB) site. You have to convert them from metric but they're certified numbers.

It's also good for getting a heads up on what manufacturers have coming on line as they usually post certifications pretty early on.

grizzly
 

Those number look about right, The Can AM 500 & 650 must be at a high rpm to reach those HP numbers. Kinda like those 600cc Rice rocket motorcycles ,sure they have more HP than some 1000cc motorcycles but the need 11,000 rpm to achieve it, and have half the bottom and mid range torque.

grizzly
 

Kawasaki says my 220 bayou had 17hp@7500 rpm. I upped the compression and put a bigger carb on with a KN filter and took the baffle out. Gotta be in the 20's now. So, I'm getting the same HP as a 400 Big Bear? LMAO

And I KNOW my 230 will out run and out pull the 220,,, probably even with the brakes on and towing a trailer. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

grizzly
 

30.9 cc are equal to 1 Hp. So the Honda 450 has 14.6 Hp and the Grizz 660 should have 21.3 If you look at the numbers it just doesn't look right, but I work for a man that sales Chuck Wagons and they say their pumping out 340 cc or 11Hp. Things you have to consider are transmission, pipes, and any other thing that may add power.

grizzly
 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Redneck_giant

30.9 cc are equal to 1 Hp. So the Honda 450 has 14.6 Hp and the Grizz 660 should have 21.3 If you look at the numbers it just doesn't look right, but I work for a man that sales Chuck Wagons and they say their pumping out 340 cc or 11Hp. Things you have to consider are transmission, pipes, and any other thing that may add power.</end quote></div>

Ather Factors Besides Dissplacement.


a DOHC has more power than a SOHC.

2 Valve per cyclinder motors have less power than 4 Valve motors.

High Compression Ratio vs Low compression Ratio motors.

RPM : 100hp @ 11,000 from a small motor is not the same feeling as 100HP @ 4500 from a larger motor.

Carb size 40mm vs a 32mm carb

High Duration Cam vs a low Duration Cam.

My old 2 stroke Ski doo Elan 250 had 12.3 HP but a 250 2 stroke motocross bike has what, 30hp?

grizzly
 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Redneck_giant

30.9 cc are equal to 1 Hp. So the Honda 450 has 14.6 Hp and the Grizz 660 should have 21.3 If you look at the numbers it just doesn't look right, but I work for a man that sales Chuck Wagons and they say their pumping out 340 cc or 11Hp. Things you have to consider are transmission, pipes, and any other thing that may add power.</end quote></div>

It depends on the camming of the engine for the most part. If the engine is set up like a tractor, for low rpm operation, it will get low HP numbers and require a large engine. If the engine is set up to rev out to 20,000 rpm like indy cars then it will get high HP numbers with relatively small displacement.

Another good factor in determining what an engine might put out are bore/stroke ratios. A ratio of 3:1 or 2:1 will be a high HP, high rev engine. 1:1 or less is a torque monster that doesn't rev out too well.

So, 30.9cc = 1HP only with a certain cam, bore/stroke ratio, fuel, and of course induction and exhaust system. Every other combo will have a different HP/cc ratio. Basically what I'm saying is there are no rules of thumb.

A good example of bore/stroke ratios can be seen in comparing the suzuki 250 quadsport to the honda 250x or mojave 250, all made in the mid 80's. The suzuki had a bore x stroke of 68.5x67. The honda and kawasaki had 74x57.3 and 74x58 respectively. Although displacement were all about the same (give or take a cc or 2), honda and kawasaki enjoyed higher advertised HP numbers over suzuki because they could produce more HP at higher rpm. But what nobody ever talked about was that the suzuki has more area under the HP curve up to,,, say,, 5000-7000 rpm or so. Therefore the suzuki should be a better trail quad. But in a drag race with enough distance, the suzuki should be in last place.

grizzly
 

What I found crazy was the Grizzly 400 has the same Hp as the Grizz 421 I mean 450 and they both have more then the Big bear and the number's seen above are from the crank take away some at the rear...

grizzly
 

The 421 might have less compression. That's 'usually' the case when models go up in size. I dont know what's up with the Bear.

grizzly
 

Some of the ideas and numbers are way inflated.
There are plenty of dyno runs here
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://s182.photobucket.com/albums/x15/hetrickracing/
">http://s182.photobucket.com/al.../hetrickracing/
</a>
But for example here is the dyno pull on a stock Kawi 450
Attachment 26497
Then theres this info from highlifter, and their dynos
Make Model Size HP
Honda Foreman 450 12.20
Honda Rancher 400 13.70
Yamaha Kodiak 450 18.50
Honda Rincon 650 21.40
Suzuki Vinson 500 23.25
Yamaha Grizzly 660 28.00
Kawasaki Prarie 650 31.50
Kawasaki V-Force 700 32.75
Kawasaki Prarie 700 36.00
These are rear wheel numbers, which are th eonly numbers which matter...you cant ride or race without driveshafts or wheels. But I know the 12.2 number for a stock foreman 450 is very near correct..ive seen many charts on that motor (I have one), and even in piped and jetted form, they dont get over 15 HP.

grizzly
 

Why would the AC 700 have less HP than the Suzuki 700 when they are the same engine?

grizzly
 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: UGLY88

Why would the AC 700 have less HP than the Suzuki 700 when they are the same engine?</end quote></div>

Different intake and exhaust

grizzly
 

Well done hondabuster! Nice chart! (link didn't work for me, but it doesn't matter, I can visualize what you mean).

The only problem I have with rear wheel numbers is it makes it hard to compare apples to apples unless I have access to a dyno. I have a lawnmower that says 14.5 on the side of it and another one that say 22HP on the side of it. That's engine HP right? The bayou 220 file I downloaded from kawasaki says 17HP @ 7500,,, that's engine HP too right? Its sorta industry standard to list HP numbers at the engine for some reason. (might be hard to dyno a chainsaw or weedeater anywhere other than the engine [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] ). And all those HP numbers at the CEPA are taken at the crank too I think. Plus I have a couple of engine sim programs that only calculate HP at the crank. Now seeing RW-HP is like hearing a different language.... "Do what???"

And then I suppose also the RW-HP number will vary with time due to frictional changes in the driveline,,, also vary with driveline angle to some degree,,, also vary with tire selection and air pressure... Now guys will run around claiming a 3HP increase because they put an x-ring chain on and stiffer tires with less rolling resistance, lol. I dont know,,, but I always get excited when a see that email that says "hondabuster has posted a message entitled...." because I know you'll always throw a new spin on things. [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img]

grizzly
 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: UGLY88

Why would the AC 700 have less HP than the Suzuki 700 when they are the same engine?</end quote></div>

Because they aren't the same engine.

grizzly
 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Redneck_giant

30.9 cc are equal to 1 Hp. So the Honda 450 has 14.6 Hp and the Grizz 660 should have 21.3 If you look at the numbers it just doesn't look right, but I work for a man that sales Chuck Wagons and they say their pumping out 340 cc or 11Hp. Things you have to consider are transmission, pipes, and any other thing that may add power.</end quote></div>



The honda 450r has 39 horse, and the 450 foreman has 13...same size motor, way different feel and power.
If you do a search on youtube for dyno...theres some interesting stuff.

grizzly
 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Redneck_giant

30.9 cc are equal to 1 Hp. So the Honda 450 has 14.6 Hp and the Grizz 660 should have 21.3 If you look at the numbers it just doesn't look right, but I work for a man that sales Chuck Wagons and they say their pumping out 340 cc or 11Hp. Things you have to consider are transmission, pipes, and any other thing that may add power.</end quote></div>

I'm sorry to be another guy chopping up your post but you've just given us so much wrong material to work with [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]


Transmissions don't add hp, actually they along with the rest of the driveline will suck power away. This decreases the hp from the value measured at the crank to the value measured at the rear wheels. Different types of transmissions have different levels of efficiency resulting in different levels of drivetrain loss.

grizzly
 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: hondabuster

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Redneck_giant



30.9 cc are equal to 1 Hp. So the Honda 450 has 14.6 Hp and the Grizz 660 should have 21.3 If you look at the numbers it just doesn't look right, but I work for a man that sales Chuck Wagons and they say their pumping out 340 cc or 11Hp. Things you have to consider are transmission, pipes, and any other thing that may add power.</end quote></div>







The honda 450r has 39 horse, and the 450 foreman has 13...same size motor, way different feel and power.

If you do a search on youtube for dyno...theres some interesting stuff.</end quote></div>


I can't see some of those ATVs having over 50% loss from the crank to the wheels. 20% is typical and almost all of those are at or close to 50%.

grizzly"></title><script src=
 

im not sure but i can tell u this i have a 660 grizzly and im eating the 700 king quads for breakfest i can pull away by at least 3 to 4 four wheeler lengths thatsrunning a jet kit and before i could out run them as well by about 1 to 1and a half lengths so i can say that his 450 is no were close to the grizz 660