I think everyone is reading into this too much. If you get rid of those stock tires you will slide like a sumbitch. If you really want to slide get a pair of turf tamers and adjust the suspension down a few clicks, you will think you're back on a banshee.

 

bash,
definately get a set of tires...I don't think it's worth selling your new Raptor because of those junk stock tires. I put a set of 18x9.5x8" turfs on mine for MX riding and they made a world of difference alone. It's my opinion that the Raptors need an extended swingarm. I find that they feel a bit too short and tippy front to back. That's my opinion, and I'm not comparing the Raptor to other quads, but it is a great quad in stock form, you just have to dial it in to your riding needs.

 

Bash,
I agree with 660R01, and BadChad, if you want to
powerslide, definately get some aftermarket tires. I personally have Razrs, and couldn't be happier. My stock tires hooked up too much on
tight corners,

 

Bash / Predator,

The tire swaps do make a big difference...The stock tires are like trying to slide with paddles on. I recently got the Holeshots, because a Banshee friend of mine was climbing most of the same hills that paddled ones were, and still sliding when we decided to make a few circuit courses. Since I wanted an "all around tire", I invested in them. First time out, I looked like a pro...they work great on flat turns, and the Raptor don't feel near as top heavy...as far as hill climbing, they're better than stock, but the Sand Skates are still the choice for me. I wish I could encourage you on keeping the Raptor, but without some suspension mods, possibly a swingarm, the Banshees are still climbing the steep stuff better than the raptor guys around me. It's not the riders either, as they won't dare try it on my Raptor. We do short distance starts on intracoastal walls, so it's hard to beat the shee's for that, BUT all around use and features goes to the RAPTOR! Wait and see what manufacturer will be giving us a better option...who knows, I may be on the bandwagon behind you! For now, own both if possible, I would if I could...in the meantime don't feel bad, I did the same end-over-end on a hill that I now go up with ease...don't give up, it just takes a little more effort than the Banshee guys...more of a challenge, ya know! Ride Out!!!!

 

First, I would have to agree on the tire debate, get some holeshot xcs. secondly the power is what pulled you backwards. A pipe should give to feel that you would like and let you free up those tires to spin easier. I saw the hill, did the ice not create the problem? Also I have found it better to set the suspension on the plush end to try such climbs, and whenever you need the front wheels to keep down. like drag racing. I miss riding s banshee sometimes, but i think ill just pay off the raptor then ****** up a 2000 or 2001 banshee. After I rode with a friend a few weeks back he left his here for a week, I rode it one day. All in all Its fun but I Still prefer my Raptor. The thing I love about the banshee is the sound of toomey t5s when they hit and the fact that you feel the power throught the vibration building in the frame as the Rpm builds. They are fun to slide into a donut, but ride suffers, as does handling, and jumping. Also there is the $10 per tank of gas that you spend.
Just get what you like or get both.

 

Hi Bash

You will never get the raptor on par with the banshee when it comes to hill shooting, unless you get a longer swing-arm.

I fitted wheelspacers while i wait for my aftermarket axle and it slides the same as my banshee ( with any tire ).

I fitted a IMS fuel tank which keep the front-end down when it's full of gas

Hold on to your raptor unless the only riding you do is hill shooting

Paul

 

The ice may have been a factor, but too much throttle and too much traction was the deciding factor.

I'm going to try and stick it out. Hill climbing is just a part of the riding we do, so I don't think that an extended swing-arm would be of any benefit for cross country riding.

I was going to order the Custom Axis shocks and had a price of $825, but then I found out that was non-adjustable. I had assumed that since it had a canister, it was adjustable. For the adjustable, it's about $1,250 for fronts only.
Now the TCS are starting to look better. I plan on ordering a 2+4 Lonestar axle today and need to decide on some back tires as well.

Thanks for the encouragement guys, you pretty much echoed the thoughts of my favorite riding buddy. I hope I didn't come on here sounding like a whine baby, I guess I was just dicouraged and the $2,800 back roll down the hill kind of broke the camels back.

I'll get set with some mods and then reposts with the results...
Ride On!!

 

so on another note.. I have a +4 swing arm and adj axle coming from lsr... 8 weeks out though... any ways Sheldon from LsR told me that with a +4 swingarm that the raptor was still 1" shorter than a 88' 250r(I think it was 88') I expressed concerns regarding stretching it out to much for trail riding.... he stated that it shouldn't be to much of an issue...

 

Hmm...

Looks like Scott has made his decision, but you've raised a couple points that are in need of being responded to.

A 400EX will never beat a 250R, Eh? That's a pretty bold statement. I see you've never been to an XC or MX race.

Check some race results, or better yet, attend a race. The 400EX is EXTREMELY competitive with the 250R. I have beaten many in organized events & the two are generally close enough that the rider more than makes the difference, so unless you can come up with some substantial evidence/real life experience otherwise, don't even go there. Heck, in the MHSC, the 4 stroke C class (dominated by 400EX's) top places turn
nearly the same and often better lap times than the top of the B class 2 stroke (dominated by 250R's). I don't have much respect or time for
people that make claims without data to back themselves up.

I can already see it would be useless to try to have a civilized discussion on the shortcomings of the Raptor's chassis with you, so I won't waste my time or yours, besides, I have posted the information already on many occasions.

How does the old saying go -- You can lead a horse to water but.....

Attend an XC or even MX race sometime, see what's fast and what is not. See how fast you are, then come back and talk to me.

Now to Scott (bash)...

My 5 recommendations if you are going to keep that Raptor are:

1: As others have said, get some better rear tires, it won't make "all the difference", but it is a step in the right direction. Keep in mind that 20" Holeshots or RAZRs are taller than stock. This will improve swingarm to ground clearance, but compound the Raptor's top-heavyness.

2: Get the extended swingarm, this and shocks are THE ONLY way you will help the Raptor's weight bias problem & keep it from trying to loop on the hills.

3: (looks like you already have it in the works), get an extended axle. There is no reason to have the rear more narrow than the front.

4: Look into a better carb setup. My choice would be a single Keihin Flat CR. This should probably be the single biggest improvement you can make to the Raptor's tunability and power delivery.

5: Get some shocks that will lower the ride height of the quad. This will not only help the Raptor's cornering, it will also help keep the front tires on the ground.

I'll just say it once more, look at the money you'll spend just to try to get the handling to the level of a stock EX or R, make your decisions. Personally I'd be looking into other options at this point.

Good luck

 

Gabe,

If no one else does, at least know that I appreciate your comments, constructive criticism, and suggestions.

I know where you are coming from as far as frame geometry, rake and so forth.

My Raptor is paid for, so I could sell it with minimal repairs and take the insurance money and have just over $7,000 to build about any other quad. The problem is that I'm not racing 100% of the time. I also like to trail ride albeit swiftly and in general, just goof around. To make matters worse, my wife now thinks she can ride my Raptor (she never even attempted the Banshee).

I guess that my problem is that I want it all! I want great woods handling, screaming top end, low maintenance and reverse. MX track handling is really my last concern because I don't care about taking it to the track and getting it all beat up by a bunch of gung-ho teenagers that like to take cheap shots at you in the corners.

If I could go out and buy a brand new Honda 250R, I guess it would be easier to decide, knowing that I'd be getting arguably sport ATV that all others are measured by. I realize that the 400ex is a great handling bike, but I'm having a hard enough time missing the adrenaline rush of the Banshee when riding the Raptor. To go to the 400 (even though it is very capable), would be even worse for me.

My thoughts are really no reflection on the quads mentioned, it's just my mindset. If I could get my mind right, I could drop the Banshee style of riding and it would be much easier to do what I want on the Raptor.

When we speak of money, there are different ways to look at it. One way would be that I paid for the Raptor, crashed it and in the process of repairing it, I upgrade it at no out-of-pocket expense. When you look at it that way, having a Raptor with items such as a lonestar axle, tcs shocks, better tires and so forth wouldn't be too bad of a deal. Then again, I'm sure you're saying, "sell it, take the 7G, buy a 400ex, spend another grand and then take the remaining and put it in the bank." and I guess that would make sense to.

Usually, no, make that most always, if I start something, I finish it, regardless if I do it the hard way the entire time. For example, last year I decided to build an extremely accurate semi-auto rifle just because people said it couldn't be done. Well, after more than $2,000 worth of parts, I built an AR-15 that will put 5 consecutive shots into a deck of cards from 600 yards (1,800ft) away. Call me hard-headed, but I like to take the hard path just because that's not the accepted way. I'm sure that'll be the one you'll find me riding, pushing or pulling my Raptor on.