Which is a better machine AC500auto or the Foreman
450ES?

 

LOL Foreman 450es would destory that quad.

But why not compare it to Hondas 500cc, the Rubicon
Now that quad would reck your cats'.

Best on earth.

 

I personally would like to see a 450 destroy an AC 500. I don't see any advantage that it has. Show me one. Reliability?? Not enough to go on. AC's are tough as nails. Speed. I can see where the 450 may be as fast, but not faster. Slower if anything. Power, the AC has more. Not so much that is a major difference, but definitely more. Ride, no contest- AC all the way. Stability? The swingaxle keeps all four on the ground in places where the honda has a tire in the air.

Basically, all the 450 has on the Cat is the HONDA name, and a neat looking speedometer display. Thats it. I will say that Honda has the most reliable engines made, but in performance, there is no way that the 450 can beat the AC500, nevertheless destroy it. You are too proud of what you own. Quit brand bragging and use some common sense.

 

Okay, Okay. A friend of mine has a 450 ES rides with me all the time, and many others with many other makes. In my opinion, the electric shift is junk. We have to carry a water bottle for his shift buttons, get in a couple of good gooey mud holes, get mud on the gloves and the shift button pack up with mud and he's stuck in whatever gear it decides to get stuck in. Another thing, stock ground clearance: Might as well be on a go-cart. Always stuck. Bottomed out. He lifted his 1-1/2", put on Goodyear Mudrunners and now he can perform slightly better than me in the mud. Hill climbs or uphill over very rough, rocky terrian---forget it. I can go circles around him.

 

I ride with ALMOST only Honda 450's. I have never regreted buying my Cat after a ride with any one of them. In fact I almost always thank myself for getting my cat over the 450s that I had orginally wanted.

I have outmuded a 450es with 26" Vamps, raced EVERY 450 that I have gone up against, pushed them threw rack deep ponds, had pull off contest with them(never lost), and traded rides with them for a bit. The only advantages I see are the more sporty handling(no body roll in very hard corners like my cat), the cool speedometer, and the abundance of aftermarket parts.

About the climbing, a 450 just can't compare to an Atctic Cat in that place. My freind has a 450 with 27" mud bugs and he just can't climb anywheres near as good as me, he has fliped his 450 going threw the same place that I had just passed not 45 seconds before him, he has also needed me to get off my bike and manually pull on his front rack to climb the same spot that I had just climbed with out even spining a tire. The reason he can't climb as well as my cat is because of the rear suspension, and the front differential that almost never has 4 wheels pulling.

 

Personally I think that they are both great quads. I considered a Cat before finally purchasing the Foreman. I found that the Foreman handled better which was a big thing to me. Also the Cat is about 75 lbs heavier which was a major turn off. That probably accounted for the some of the difference in handling.

Although I had little experience with the Cat atvs, I have an abundance of experience with their snowmobiles. They are a decent sled but fit and finish have traditionally been poor. Also the Cat snowmobiles have a tendency to develop annoying squeaks and rattles which would drive me crazy. Since they come from the same company, that was a concern for me.

Reliability .... I know the Honda is reliable. I don't know about the Cats. The local dealer here handles Cat, Suzuki and Yamaha. When I was shopping for a bile he told me that he got about 10 Cats back for repairs to every one of the Japanese bikes. Was he right? I don't know but that is what he said. The folks on this forum say that they are reliable. I believe them but everything is relative.

I am told that the Hondas are considerably better on gas. I can't verify that because there aren't any Cats in the group that I ride with. I can tell you that I can get upwards of 40 mpg (Cdn) with the 450.

Resale value .... Hondas have been great around here. I honestly don't know about the Cats.

I do know that the Cat rides better and has more power. That Suzuki motor is a jewel. And the suspension sure would feel good on my old bones.

The Cat also has more ground clearance and that is great for mudding/rock climbing but probably not so great for sport driving.

The electric shift on both of my Hondas has worked great. With all due respect to vtCatamount, it is not junk. That may be your opinion but I would suggest that you are in the slim minority with that opinion on that subject.

To sum it up, they are both good bikes. Try them both out in the conditions that you intend to ride in and them make an informed decision. Each is better than the other in various areas. You have to determine which areas best addresses your needs.

Good luck.
Temp

 

Tempest,

Great post. I can tell you one thing, around here the resale value of cats are horrible. They just don't sell enought of them down here to prove what they are worth.

Gas milage, I would say your honda gets better gas milage than my cat, BUT I don't know how you ride. I am a VERY aggressive rider. So most of the time I am full throttle, but I still get between 25-30 mpg(I tested my total mileage and got 102 miles on one 4.25gal tank).

The fit and finish of my Cat is not even close to the fit and finish of my freinds 450, but his performance is not even close to my cat either.

Top speed-- I have had one 450 that was actually a chalenge, it had 27" Mud Bugs. I guess the light weight and larger gearing allowed him to just about keep up with me, but I was still about 1-2 mph faster with my stockers.

 

and AC500 would fairly handily beat a 450ES I have witnessed it myslef. They are not even in the same category in my book. Allot of people around here have had trouble with the ES on the Honda's usually only the mudrunners though.
True The only thing Honda has going for it is Honda, as for the performance and ride of there machines forget it there are allot better in those categories, When I owned my 300 4x4 Honda , the best reliability was far from my mind when 3 wheel driving and geting stuck all the time , and getting beat by a ride they should have as an option for capital punishment.

 

Sorry xepathfinder but we will have to agree to disagree. Granted the Cat has more power and more ground clearance but to say "They are not even in the same category in my book." is more than a tad off the mark. If you recall, there was a shootout between the 450S and the 425 Expedition and the reviewers gave it to the 450S but a narrow margin. Are you saying that the Expedition is even further removed from the AC500? I don't think that it is.

You can see by the posts above that the Cat owners themselves admit that top end is close (suprises me since the Cat does have a 500 cc motor) and handling clearly goes to the Honda. Not to mention gas mileage and resale value. And vtCatamount stated that a lift kit and decent tires actually made the Foreman slightly better in the mud. A lift kit is now $80 from H/L.

If all you want to do is mud or climb hills exclusively then the Cat is the way to go but if you are like many people and mostly trail ride with some mudding and hill climbing then there could be a different conclusion.

As I said in my previous post, Samurai should try them both out and determine which bike best suits his intended riding environment. I continue to see both bikes as very competitive with different strengths and weaknesses. The same way as I view the Expedition and Foreman. Or the Cat and Expedition for that matter.

But hey, that is what makes these forums so great. We can all have our own opinion and are free to share it.

Temp

 

Gentleman, I appreciate the input and I'm not brand bashing, I'm looking into buying my first bike. As far as price goes 450ES with plow and winch for $6,500. The Cat with pplow for $6,100.
Any more opinions?
Thanks
-Samurai