Warhawk- Thanks for all the info. Dammit! you've got me all wanting stuff again at a time when I just dropped $900 on truck payments and insurance, along with Christmas coming up quick. Why is it that I always start wanting stuff when I don't have any money? Probably because thats the safest time. Who knows. That really has me thinking about the .338 now. Thats a big *** gun, and readily available in the model I want. I will get the weaver mounts when I get a ruger. Thats a definite. Whatever scope I get, I just want it to be one that doesn't blur up to bad, and I want a heavier plex reticle rather than the fine crosshairs. I hate those for some reason. For the bigger rifle in the future, that scope will be a decent $200-300 scope. You don't buy a cadillac and then put $30 tires on it. Thanks for all the info here. I'm thinking that I could get by on a 200 grain bullet. Even if I never got into reloading, there are people around here that do, and I could always go to someplace around and get some custom loaded stuff. A .338 isn't something that I would plan on shooting very much anyway. I'd like to still have both shoulders still intact when I'm 40.

 

Andy and Cowboy ... Check your email.

Andy, yours bounced, what's a good email address for you.

jimnelson1@prodigy.net

 

I shoot a 30-06, mostly for moose but also sheep, so I can't commnet much on the varmint rifles; but I do handload so here's my 2-cents worth.

Don't use someone else's handloads in your rifle. Loads must be worked up from a light load and increased VERY gradually, watching for specific signs of high pressure in YOUR rifle. A safe load in someone elses rifle could blow yours up in your face, due to differences in chamber length etc. We are talking thousandths of an inch here, so if you think eyeballing is good enough, stay away from handloading. Besides, every gun will shoot the same load differently, so a good load for someone else's rifle may not be accurate in your gun anyway. If you can start by using your friends equipment, that's great. Just work up loads specifically for YOUR gun and DOCUMENT EVERYTHING!

Bullet for bullet, handloading is cheaper, but if you consider the cost of equipment you would have to shoot a lot to save money. You also have to shoot more to work up a load. If your're worried about shooting out your shoulder, you may not get the savings. I reload because I enjoy it during the long winter months, and I get better loads taylored for my rifle.

Don't let me scare you away from handloading. Just be prepared to do some research, follow all the safety rules religiously, and pay strict attention to detail. And don't forget to HAVE FUN!

 

YukonRon:
Thanks for the info! You actually backed up my feelings about shooting somebody else's loads. I won't do it, as they can be kind of scary like I said earlier. I'm glad you mentioned that too. I've been having an on-going arguement with a buddy of mine about my .30-06 and which shells to use. He seems to think I should be shooting 165 grain bullets. I say no way in hell, I'm ALOT more accurate with 180 grain, so that is what I shoot. Not because of the difference in a heavier bullet, but because it shoots better in MY rifle. That's what it likes, so that's what I feed it. Does well together, and as I finally got my first deer, I now really see no reason to change.

As for shooting my shoulder out- Heh, not a chance! I love shooting, that don't bother me a bit. Just wish I had more time to shoot, and also that I could afford a little more. I've got a huge list of "wishfull guns", if you know what I mean.

Warhawk:
Hey, not being rude here, hotmail is down AGAIN so I can't even get to my messages. Thing is really irritating me lately-over the last week, it's been down, or unaccessible for 4 days or so. Really makes it difficult when you rely on it for work and schoolling. May have to switch if they can't get it straitened out.

Mike

 

Andy_Bassham@yahoo.com

Never could get my email to update on the forums. I tried everything, but it never worked. That email was a college email from early 99. I haven't had access to it for over a year now.

 

Since everyone is having trouble with their email, I has posted my email to Andy and Cowboy below.

I hope no one thought I suggested shooting anyone elses reloads. The only way I'd do that is if they were from one of the commercial reloading outfits.

Yukon ... You're right about saving money thru handloading *unless* you shoot something like a .338. The last factory loads I saw (at Wal Mart no less) were $28 per 20. You can easily handload 50 for that price, maybe 100, assuming you already have the brass. You can also save a lot of money on handgun ammo when you load cast bullets.

Here is my email to Andy and Cowboy

***************************

Howdy ... This is Warhawk from ATV Connection. I decided to take this to email. I check my email a whole lot more often than I remember to check the forums on ATV Connection. Plus I'm afraid we'll have the moderator after us before long <G>.

Andy ... I never thought to look up where Mountainburg Arkansas is. I've been right by there many, many times. My folks have retired and moved back "home" to Arkansas, near Searcy. I live near Wichita and to get to their house I go east to Joplin then down 71 to I-40 and on east. I was just down that way at Thanksgiving. Small world!

Natchez usually has about the best prices around. And if you sign up for their sale flyer they have some really good deals. They carry all kinds of stuff too. I used to be into coon huniting and they carry (used to anyway) Nite Lite headlights quite a bit cheaper than anywhere else.

Cowboy ... I think I'd jump on that used VSSF in .223. The biggest reason I chose the .223 was that I decided to streamline the calibers I reload. I used to load all kind of crazy stuff but now I'm down to .223, .308, .338, .45-70 and we still load a little .270 for my son. I've had .22-250's and a .220 Swift, but if you look at the ballistics tables the extra velocity really doesn't gain you all that much in flatter trajectory. And .223 is definately cheaper, I handload so the big difference is that .223 brass is dirt cheap and they don't take much powder to load. If you're buying factory loads, the military style .223 with FMJ bullets are cheap, and there is surplus ammo out there that is really cheap. A few years ago I bought some South African .223 that shot real well and the price worked out to about $2.75 per 20. You've got to watch the flyers from Natchez, CTD etc. to find those deals.

Whenever you do get a new rifle that you want to wring the maximum accuracy out of, be sure to break in the barrel properly. This is written up a lot of places and there are varying methods used. I use my own method, I thouroughly clean the bore, I use Shooter's Choice and/or JB Bore paste to remove all copper fouling. Then I'll dry the bore completely with a couple of dry patches, then sit down and shoot a three shot group. These groups aren't always real good, but if you have a rifle that shoots a tight group from a squeaky clean bore it's a keeper. After the three shots, I clean the bore again preferably while it's still warm. I shoot another three shot group and clean again. I repeat this process until I've shot at least 20 rounds, maybe more in a rough bore (in my experience Rugers have rougher bores than Remingtons). What "breaking in" the bore does, is that it smooths the rough spots without building up copper fouling in the rough spots. If you let the copper fouling build up the bullet will ride on that and never touch the barrel steel under it. I am a big fan of moly coated bullets for target/varmint shooting but I still do the bore break in routine even on a gun I'm only planning to shoot moly in.

Andy ... I think you will like the .338, and for what it's worth I don't think the recoil is all that bad. My .338 is a Remington 700 stainless synthetic, it must be an uncataloged model because it's ADL configuration with the cheapo synthetic stock and rough almost stippled finish on the metal. Anyway, it's lighter than a wood stocked 700 magnum and lighter than my previous .338 a stainless/Synthetic Ruger M77 MKII. The Ruger synthetics have a tiny recoil pad and it was brutal, the remington is much better. I'm sure a BAR weighs a lot more than my remington, and with the gas action soaking up a little of the recoil I'll bet it isn't bad at all. of course I say that, but I shoot some pretty nasty kicking rifles too. The worst is an old (1970's vintage) Marlin 1895 in .45/70. I shoot heavy handloads in it and most of the guys I've let shoot it don't come back for seconds. I've also got a Ruger International in .308 that is pretty nasty and a very light remington model 7 in .308 that lets you know when it goes off. So the full sized .338 doesn't bother me at all. Another thing I like about my .338 is that it's very stable. I zeroed it several years ago when I was preparing for an elk hunt and haven't had to touch it since. I've check it every year, but it's still dead on. Not many rifles I've had are like that.

When you get ready for a scope, Leupold and maybe Burris offer certain models with a heavy duplex reticle. I'll bet you would like it.

If you guys have a place to do it, I think you would enjoy getting into handloading. It improves your shooting too, since you can shoot a lot more for the same money.

Cowboy ... Elmer Keith's best book is "Hell I Was There", his autobiography. It's a huge book, but definately worth reading. I've also got "Sixguns by Keith" and Gunnotes Volumes I & II, reprints of his columns from Guns & Ammo magazine.

I've rambled on long enough ... again.

Take care ...

 

Cowboy - Generally speaking, a 165 grain bullet is supposed to have the best ballistic coefficient for a 30-06, but you are right on the money when you say you shoot what your rifle shoots best. Its like the old "which atv is best (for me)" argument. I've loaded 180, 200 and 220 grain for moose, and 150 grain for sheep and caribou. I got tired of re-zeroing and re-thinking my shooting every time I changed. Now I'm loading 165 grain Speer Grand Slam bullets and will try them for everything. I just started these last season and did not get to shoot anything, but I've heard good reports from others. I've tried Nosler Partitions and the front half really came apart. One I recovered from under the hide on the far side of a moose had retained 65% of its weight. I've tried Barnes X also. I like the bullets but my gun doesn't. No use shooting a good (and expensive)bullet if you can't hit anything with it.
I think you'll do fine with the 180 grain. There are lots of good quality bullets coming on the market lately. The key is to find one that your rifle likes and then stick with it.
I still believe that a well-placed shot (with a bullet reasonably matched to the game)is more important than shooting the heaviest bullets from the biggest gun you can find. Not to say there isn't a place for the big .338's etc., but you gotta know when and how to use them.
Happy Hunting!

 

I wonder how hard it would be to put a well placed bullet at a chargeing 1500lb mad brown bear at about 75 yards. Especially when they cover 100 yards in about 7 seconds. I have owned a 7mm and a 338 mag. Breaking big bones is real important in the situation above. I have stepped into a 11 1/2 foot fresh brown bear track before holding my 7 mag in my hands wondering what I was doing in brown bear country with this rifle. From that moment on I bring the big Bertha 338 mag. 250gn Nosler Partition. I just like being sure of my situation that I can be put in real quick. Sometimes you don't get a second chance. Sure 30.06 is a great rifle, but 338 mag can go from 200gn to 275gn at high velocitys. Whats the difference if I make a 2 inch hole in that Moose or a 3 inch hole through and through the shoulders. When I walk through the woods in Alaska I like protection. My life counts on it. Not all of you live in Alaska or the Yukon so if I where you I would own a 300 mag magni-ported great all around rifle. Thats if I only had a choice of one rifle. Thats my 2 cents, and it was free!!!!!!

 

Irichard:
Hey, what's up? I haven't had the opportunity to hunt anything like a moose, or big bear like you have up there. Yeah, I'd be scared half to death probably, running around with my .30-06 with one of those huge bears you've got hot on my tail! But, for what I do -deer, elk, cougar, smaller black bears, it works great. Versatile, fun to shoot, does well for me. You are right though, if I do get to head up your way to hunt, I'd take a bigger rifle. After my smaller rifle purchase (.22-250, .223?), a big bore is the next on my list. Not sure if I'd go with a .338, .375 HH Mag, or how about a nice .450 Marlin Mag??? Damn, now I want to go shopping!

Sorry, I love guns, wish I had the money to substantially increase my collection.

Take care,

Mike

 

.460 Weatherby Mag. .470 Nitro Express. Thats the ticket. I wonder if they come with free shoulder surgery?