I am looking for input and guidance from the CAT people, so resident experts (Cowboy, Boner, Tree Farmer, Andy) send me your knowledge.

Currently I have a 98 Grizzly with about 1600 miles on it and I use it pretty much like a tractor. I have 70 acres, with 55 of it wooded, so I pull out a lot of firewood, mow about 6 acres of food plots with a pull behind mower, deer hunting, snow plowing, etc...)

Well the Grizzly power has always been nice, however it also runs HOT (air cooled), and has been giving me little problems off an on for a while now. My Yamaha dealer is also a CAT dealer and on my current incident/visit (he thinks the stator is bad) he asked me if I would be interested in switching over to a 500 CAT either auto or manual.

He is offering me the 500 manual in trade for the Grizzly and $1700 to boot, an additional $200 if I want the auto. What do you guys think, is it a good deal, or should I hold off for a possibly 2001/2002 liquid cooled Grizzly? Do you think I would miss the 100cc. 85% of the miles on the Grizzly were probably 5mph miles I am pretty sure that the type of work that I do with it has taken a toll on the belt/clutch system of the Grizzly, so I am considering the manual if I switch to the CAT, or do you feel the auto could handle the stress?

Thanks Allen L. Grooms

 

Hard to say. Mine gets hot too when I run it in low range on hillclimbs and stuff. The fan comes on quite a bit. Liquid cooling might help, but they will all get hot under those conditions. Just ask yourself if its worth $1700 to do that. You will also lose the speed factor (if thats any importance to you, I don't know. I would like to have Grizzly like speed personally).

 

Uh008:
Yeah buddy, now you're talking, that's just my game. What you just mentioned is exactly what I use my 'Cat for, nearly all the time. If I'm not seriously working it, I'm out hunting with it, either running deer or elk trails, or making my own in attempts to follow the magnificent beasts. It does excellent in my opinion, always has done everything I have ever wanted to do with it, never let me down, and never given me any trouble, always begs for more.

That extra 100 cc would be interesting though. I'm not sure how it would pan out. Like Andy said, the Grizz does have the higher top speed, so if that's your thing, I'd stick with the Grizz. Because of the extra 100 cc's, you should definately have a much higher horse power rating, which would give you the speed factor. However, for pure pulling power, torque is what takes the cake here, and this is where the AC shines, even only being a 500 cc machine. Judging from the numbers, the AC 500 is rated at 31 ft/lbs. of torque, which is a little higher than the Grizz, at 28 ft/lbs if I remember right. This might not seem like much, so I can't say if you'd really notice it or not.

Only time I've ridden a Grizz was at the dealership parking lot, also with a slight dirt hill there, but by no means was of any real riding "test". I've seen two Grizzlies now while out in the woods. Both were bone stock, one was carrying a rider only, the other was carrying the rider plus a small basket of tow strap and shovel up front. Both had winches. I never did see them haul anything, or tow anything, so I can't use it as a clear judgement, to compare with my 'Cat. I was really hoping to see them, along with the SP tow something big, so I could get a good idea of what they can handle.

Only machines I did see pulling stuff were Hondas, and a few smaller machines, all of which were dragging around cute little branches off of trees or something. They all looked so proud dragging around these twigs. Just to be a sh_t and show off a bit, I hooked up to the largest log I could find, drug it up the hill, and right down the road through the middle of them, passing each one as I pulled my log back to camp. A couple of these guys were very impressed with the pulling power of the big 'Cat, and couldn't hardly believe it was an Auto.

This brings up another issue. Do you want an Auto, or a manual? You already know what the Grizz is capable of. I'm not sure what kind of tranny they use, how the clutches engage the belt, but on the AC, it's under constant tension, so there's no give or release with it, like the Polaris. The results of this I believe are longer belt life, and better responsiveness, but those are just a guess. I've towed some pretty large, heavy stuff with my Auto Cat with no problems what so ever. Even hooked up to my '91 Suburban, towed it down the block, just to see if I could do it. It weighs just over 5,000 lbs. So, do I think the auto can handle the stress? Well, yeah, I guess I'd have to say yes to that one. If you prefer gears though, they would be stronger than the belt, but then you'd be shifting all the time. Some guys love to shift, others don't, I tend to think it's just a personal preference. I've put right around 760 miles on my Auto, mostly all at or under 5 mph and have not had any problems at all as of yet. I got them both towards the end of April of this year. Basically, it's up to you whether you want the strength of the gears, or the ease of the auto, they're both tough as hell. One thing to think about though with the manual-sometimes shifting may cause a loss of momentum, which could then end your pull in a hurry, or stop forward motion temporarily anyway.

Andy mentioned that his fan comes on quite a bit while going up hills with his 'Claws. On my '00 Cat's, the fan runs all the time the minute you turn the key on. Mine has never got hot on me, even while dragging logs, trees, branches, etc. up hills. Since adding the taller 27" 'Claws to my machine, it does get a little warmer while pulling really heavy loads, but still not hot by any means. I've never had my heat guage come on either, assuming that it works. Never been hot on the legs though.

Since most of your miles are at or under 5 mph, you're probably not going to miss the extra 100 cc's. I say this, judging from the idea that at slower speeds, you're probably running a much lower rpm. At the lower rpm's is where you'll have your highest torque ratings. The higher the rpm's, generally speaking, the higher the hp ratings, which is then where your extra 100 cc's would come into play, thus giving you the higher top speed. Speed is not the issue while pulling or towing, and since you're not revving high enough to get the maximum hp's at 5 mph, you're going to be lower on the torque curve, and probably wouldn't even notice the missing 100 cc's. Just my hypothesis, if it makes any sense.

Your dealer doesn't have a used 'Cat laying around that he could trade you for a day does he? That would be the best way of allowing you to decide how important the extra cc's are. I think for your purposes, the only thing of any consideration would be speed. Is that important to you or not? If so, stick with the Grizz, it is definately faster than the 'Cats. I've had mine between 55-60 on the speedo with the stock tires, but that is not the true mileage. Andy's checked his with the GPS, and I think was only able to get it up to 52-53 if I remember right. For me, that's plenty fast-I very rarely even take it up there anyway, for Andy, he could use a few more ponies, just our own preferences. Not sure what the Grizz tops out at, if that's an issue for you.

To give you an idea of the weight my 'Cat carries at all times, it weighs 650 dry weight, add gas, oil, etc. gives you a couple extra pounds there. Then, I've got over 100 lbs. up front, with between 150-200 on the rear at all times. Add my 230 lb. butt, we're now talking about roughly 1,180 lbs. that my 'Cat runs round with at all times, not even towing anything yet.

Anyway, best of luck in the decision, aside from being so lengthy, hopefully I have at least given something to think about. Good luck, and take care,

Mike

 

I'd personally recomend the Arctic Cat 500 Manual shift. For mowing I think it will be a far better choice. IT will allow you to ride at a slower speed yet rev it a bit higher (if you want to get in to the peak torque at 3200-3600 rpms) or rev it lower (save fuel) by riding in a higher gear for lower rpms.

I think that the Auto takes away the real "grunt" that the 493cc motor has, but thats me.

I think you should considering upgrading your tires asap when you get the cat. The cat steers a good bit heavier than the Grizzly and going with narrower tires will help lower the steering effort.

ps. You are not the only Grizzly owner swaping out to a Cat. The guy I bought my Tri_claws from is getting a 2001 Manual cat next week end. He has had enought of his grizzly, it's currently in the shop leaking oil from the bottom of the jug. The shop said they think it's the crank shaft.

Isn't there a former Grizzly owner with an AC 500 auto now in these forums?

 

Got to add my .02 on this one. I personally feel that the AC doesn't feel near as tippy as the Grizz and the ride is much smoother. When using it for mowing purposes, me thinks your butt would appreciate the ride of the cat at the end of the day. I own an Auto, but for the uses you describe i'd get the manual.

 

Thanks for the input thus far guys, it is much appreciated. To answer the most asked question, no I do not need the speed. The Grizz is just a farming/hunting tool, and it never leaves the property to run. Work all day and have no play, thats the life of my Grizz.

Cowboy it sounds as if the auto has exceeded you wildest expectation, however I am leaning towards switching over to the manual. It will probably be in 1st or 2nd 90% of the time anyway. I know the Grizzly belt cover gets EXTEREMLY hot when I am pulling a mower or the harrow.

My Cat/Yamaha dealer has loaned me a 2000 CAT 2X4 400 as a loaner until he is able to get the Grizzly fixed. It appears that one of his mechanics exited hastily and took several manuals with him, one of which was the Grizzly manual. He replaced the stator and now has current in the system , but still no spark, and without the wiring diagrams it hard to chase an electrical problem. He said he swapped out the CDI with no improvement, so he believes it is a broken wire or connections somewhere.

He has had the Grizzly for about 10 days now and borrowed me the little CAT because I needed something for deer season, and he has refused to put any more time into the Grizzly until he receives his new manual.

The little CAT steers real easy, however it has the 25X8's in the front and 25X10's in the rear. I believe the 500 has 25X10's all around. I really like the way the 400 steers, however it is much weaker than the Grizzly and I cannot get by with 2X4. I had to take the long way around if I had any load at all in the wagon behind the little CAT. It just could not pull a load up some of my hilly trails. I am really unimpressed with the brakes, either they are poorly adjusted from the factory or they really stink. Going down one of my trails I met my brother-in-law returning from his stand. It was a down hill grade and I tried to stop to ask him if he saw anything and I couldn't. I was putting the major squeeze on the hand brake and applying the foot brake and I still just kept creeping down the hill. The tires weren't locked up and sliding, it just wouldn't brake. I expected more from disc brakes.

Keep those cards and letters coming as I am still wavering on my decision. It is really not a good time to take on another $2K in debt, and I kind of wanted to see how the new Prairie would look, however $7K is pretty pricy.

Thanks Allen L. Grooms
98 Grizzly One Hot Machine

 

Regarding your brake concerns, if the 400 was real new, the brakes probably weren't broke in yet. The owners manual calls for 15 or so (can't remember exactly how many) 30 to 0 hard braking stops to burn the pads in. I noticed a big improvement in the stopping power on my Cat after burning the pads in. It will stop on a dime & hold any hill I dare to stop on now. My Dad's Cat had about 20 miles on it when he bought it (demo) and I had a much harder time breaking his pads in. They took many more 30 to 0 hard stops to get to where they grabbed liked mine. I assume they weren't properly broke in when new & that's why.

Lance

P.S. I'm sure you'll love your new Cat if you get one!

 

uh008:

First off, it's nice to see someone else from Iowa on this forum!

The applications that you use your grizzly for are almost identical to what I do with my AC. I own 20 acres, about 14 of that timber. I use my quad as a tractor, in fact I use it in place of my tractor when the job is either inaccessible by tractor or is more convenient (read fun) to do on the quad.

I pull logs with it, I've removed buried fence with it, I plow snow, pull trailers, plan on getting a pull-behind mower in the spring, much the same as you. If this is your main use for a quad, the AC has to be at the top of your list of models to be considering.

As far as auto or manual, that has to be your decision. I've owned my auto for over a year now. I only have about 450 miles on it, but almost all of those miles involve some type of work.

The only problem I've had with the belt is what I and some others on here call belt "barking". When you abruptly stop the machine, say from a sliding stop, the belt will let out a short "bark" when you start out again. This has only happened to me a few times when stopping quickly in high range and starting up again going uphill. I know it's happened to others with autos on here as well.

I guess my best testimonial of what the auto can do happened over Thanksgiving. I was cleaning up an oak tree that had fallen in our timber. It was laying on about a 40% slope. I stripped the arms off of it and wanted to drag the main trunk out. It was about 24" or so in diameter at the base and about 35' long. I ended up cutting it into 3 pieces and dragging them out up the steep hill. I was impressed. As I was dragging them, I was plowing a nice furrow with the logs. The transmission housing got a little warmer than usual, but handled it just fine.

The other application where the auto is nice is snow plowing. I plow out a medium size parking lot where I make 200' swaths back and forth. With the auto, you're always in the powerband and can go from a stop to 15 mph without any loss of momentum.

As mentioned before, the main thing you would miss from switching from the grizzly is it's acceleration and top speed. I don't think you would notice much difference at all in grunt power.

Good luck with your decision.

 

Thats odd about the brakes. That particular bike must just suck or something. My brakes have been unbelievable since day 1. Now they don't hold as well on steep slopes, but they probably need to be bled some. 1700 miles on the factory pads too. Even still, it has no trouble stopping in a hurry or otherwise. Brakes on the 4x4 will be better anyway because of the wheels being linked. Of course they have the 2wd option now which is nice (except for the lever that actuates it). Still, $1700 is a hard shot in the ribs to take.

 

I had a Grizzly for 380 miles. It literally broke everytime I went on a trail ride with it. Over heated twice, vibrated terribly ......Let's just say I hated that piece a @#$%#. I sold it and bought my Auto Cat. Other than the Grizzlies huge power difference (the grizzly is a lot quicker), I would not trade my Cat for 10 free Grizzlies. My buddy swore by his Grizzly for two years and 2500 miles. He had to have the motor redone after 1000 miles,the crappy rear brake, overheating, various other irritating problems etc.... He has since sold it and plans on buying the new 650 Prairie, gotta have the biggest. Me, I will keep my Cat. I may sell it next fall and buy a manual Cat. If my primary use was working I would buy the Manual Cat unless you like the Auto tranny either way you can't go wrong.
Mike