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How do you make the AC handle better.
Sep 8, 2007 | 10:07 AM
#51
Pro Rider
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 274
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How do you make the AC handle better.
from Buckaroo50 - There is nothing wrong with AC. The suspension and tire pressures just need to be tuned from the factory settings. My experience has been that once tuned the AC can handle better than most and can be right there with the best of them. Actually if you spend some time, the AC IRS and run with an SRA. Plus with AC you get a host of other bennies such as the industry leader in GC and wheel travel. Doesn't get much better than this. AC as well as all ATV's the demon is the 'role-under' from the front tires.
The point I was trying to make is that there is obviously a problem with the "factory" set up when the cats are delivered. This being the case, if it is such a simple fix, why doesn't it come "fixed" from the factory. There are alot of people out there on cats that don't read forums like this and ride around on a machine that could easily be made a bit safer to ride. You would think AC would want to take these simple steps.
The point I was trying to make is that there is obviously a problem with the "factory" set up when the cats are delivered. This being the case, if it is such a simple fix, why doesn't it come "fixed" from the factory. There are alot of people out there on cats that don't read forums like this and ride around on a machine that could easily be made a bit safer to ride. You would think AC would want to take these simple steps.
Sep 8, 2007 | 10:48 AM
#52
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Joined: Aug 2005
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How do you make the AC handle better.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Mud Hog
from Buckaroo50 - There is nothing wrong with AC. The suspension and tire pressures just need to be tuned from the factory settings. My experience has been that once tuned the AC can handle better than most and can be right there with the best of them. Actually if you spend some time, the AC IRS and run with an SRA. Plus with AC you get a host of other bennies such as the industry leader in GC and wheel travel. Doesn't get much better than this. AC as well as all ATV's the demon is the 'role-under' from the front tires.
The point I was trying to make is that there is obviously a problem with the "factory" set up when the cats are delivered. This being the case, if it is such a simple fix, why doesn't it come "fixed" from the factory. There are alot of people out there on cats that don't read forums like this and ride around on a machine that could easily be made a bit safer to ride. You would think AC would want to take these simple steps.</end quote></div>
I agree with you. Part of the situation is that in most cases the front tires need more air, up around 8 lbs and all factories (not just AC) put in a max and recommend a max of 5 lbs. I think the single most important thing to do with any machine is to add air to the front so that the 'roll-under' is diminished. The second most important is to make sure the front springs are soft enough to accept the weight transfer and not push in a turn. And the third most important thing is to make sure the rear suspension is stiff enough to become light while entering a turn, again not push, but only to follow the front end.
Most people think that in order to make the ATV handle better that the front springs need to become stiff to make it more stable - THIS IS WRONG - IT IS JUST THE OPPOSITE. The front needs to be soft and accept weight and get grip and the stability comes from the rear suspension, with it's ability to become light (because it is stiff) and slide if necessary and not to overly grip and compromise the machine into a dip or a roll.
I agree that it is too bad that some riders don't read the forums, but for us that do we can offer comments and 'how-to's' to people that don't read these forums. I have helped people that don't even have a computer. They see my machine perform and ask 'how are you able to do that'. So I tell them.
from Buckaroo50 - There is nothing wrong with AC. The suspension and tire pressures just need to be tuned from the factory settings. My experience has been that once tuned the AC can handle better than most and can be right there with the best of them. Actually if you spend some time, the AC IRS and run with an SRA. Plus with AC you get a host of other bennies such as the industry leader in GC and wheel travel. Doesn't get much better than this. AC as well as all ATV's the demon is the 'role-under' from the front tires.
The point I was trying to make is that there is obviously a problem with the "factory" set up when the cats are delivered. This being the case, if it is such a simple fix, why doesn't it come "fixed" from the factory. There are alot of people out there on cats that don't read forums like this and ride around on a machine that could easily be made a bit safer to ride. You would think AC would want to take these simple steps.</end quote></div>
I agree with you. Part of the situation is that in most cases the front tires need more air, up around 8 lbs and all factories (not just AC) put in a max and recommend a max of 5 lbs. I think the single most important thing to do with any machine is to add air to the front so that the 'roll-under' is diminished. The second most important is to make sure the front springs are soft enough to accept the weight transfer and not push in a turn. And the third most important thing is to make sure the rear suspension is stiff enough to become light while entering a turn, again not push, but only to follow the front end.
Most people think that in order to make the ATV handle better that the front springs need to become stiff to make it more stable - THIS IS WRONG - IT IS JUST THE OPPOSITE. The front needs to be soft and accept weight and get grip and the stability comes from the rear suspension, with it's ability to become light (because it is stiff) and slide if necessary and not to overly grip and compromise the machine into a dip or a roll.
I agree that it is too bad that some riders don't read the forums, but for us that do we can offer comments and 'how-to's' to people that don't read these forums. I have helped people that don't even have a computer. They see my machine perform and ask 'how are you able to do that'. So I tell them.
Sep 8, 2007 | 02:38 PM
#53
Pro Rider
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 594
Likes: 1
How do you make the AC handle better.
Mud Hog, I think the important fact here is that the suspension needs to be tuned for each rider, no blanket setting from the factory will be right for every rider. That's the whole idea behind tuning.
Even I have made some adjustments based on this info and am happy with the results.
Yes buck, don't get all teary eyed on me.
Even I have made some adjustments based on this info and am happy with the results.
Yes buck, don't get all teary eyed on me.
Sep 8, 2007 | 02:42 PM
#54
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How do you make the AC handle better.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Chumley
Mud Hog, I think the important fact here is that the suspension needs to be tuned for each rider, no blanket setting from the factory will be right for every rider. That's the whole idea behind tuning.
Even I have made some adjustments based on this info and am happy with the results.
Yes buck, don't get all teary eyed on me.</end quote></div>
Chumley, (lol) you made my day, I am happier than a pig in sh_t. Good for you, I am glad that some of this post helped out for you.
Mud Hog, I think the important fact here is that the suspension needs to be tuned for each rider, no blanket setting from the factory will be right for every rider. That's the whole idea behind tuning.
Even I have made some adjustments based on this info and am happy with the results.
Yes buck, don't get all teary eyed on me.</end quote></div>
Chumley, (lol) you made my day, I am happier than a pig in sh_t. Good for you, I am glad that some of this post helped out for you.
Sep 16, 2007 | 07:27 PM
#55
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
How do you make the AC handle better.
Just purchased an H1 650 and went riding today at Brushy Mountain (http://www.bmmspark.com/). The H1 is great but really scares me on steep hills where I need to turn. My old Yamaha Wolverine had no issue but the H1 would start to tip. Freaked me enough that I got off twice ,set the brake, lifted the front to make the turn downhill, then got back on and rode.
I checked my air and that may be part of the issue -- 9 lbs all the way around. I will try reducing the back tires to 5 psi pon my next ride. Part of my issue was grip -- several of the turns were on large rock and the rear tires would slide sideways when trying to turn.
Where is the best place to purchase the 1" spacers? I really need more stability when sideways on a hill.....
I checked my air and that may be part of the issue -- 9 lbs all the way around. I will try reducing the back tires to 5 psi pon my next ride. Part of my issue was grip -- several of the turns were on large rock and the rear tires would slide sideways when trying to turn.
Where is the best place to purchase the 1" spacers? I really need more stability when sideways on a hill.....
Sep 16, 2007 | 07:33 PM
#56
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Pro Rider
Joined: Aug 2005
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How do you make the AC handle better.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: roamerr
Just purchased an H1 650 and went riding today at Brushy Mountain (http://www.bmmspark.com/). The H1 is great but really scares me on steep hills where I need to turn. My old Yamaha Wolverine had no issue but the H1 would start to tip. Freaked me enough that I got off twice ,set the brake, lifted the front to make the turn downhill, then got back on and rode.
I checked my air and that may be part of the issue -- 9 lbs all the way around. I will try reducing the back tires to 5 psi pon my next ride. Part of my issue was grip -- several of the turns were on large rock and the rear tires would slide sideways when trying to turn.
Where is the best place to purchase the 1" spacers? I really need more stability when sideways on a hill.....</end quote></div>
Here is where I got mine:
http://www.psep.biz/store/arct...t_atv_wheel_spacer.htm
Just purchased an H1 650 and went riding today at Brushy Mountain (http://www.bmmspark.com/). The H1 is great but really scares me on steep hills where I need to turn. My old Yamaha Wolverine had no issue but the H1 would start to tip. Freaked me enough that I got off twice ,set the brake, lifted the front to make the turn downhill, then got back on and rode.
I checked my air and that may be part of the issue -- 9 lbs all the way around. I will try reducing the back tires to 5 psi pon my next ride. Part of my issue was grip -- several of the turns were on large rock and the rear tires would slide sideways when trying to turn.
Where is the best place to purchase the 1" spacers? I really need more stability when sideways on a hill.....</end quote></div>
Here is where I got mine:
http://www.psep.biz/store/arct...t_atv_wheel_spacer.htm
Sep 16, 2007 | 08:17 PM
#58
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Pro Rider
Joined: Aug 2005
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How do you make the AC handle better.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: roamerr
Any negative to spacers other than the extra width?
Thanks for the link. The H1 is 4/115mm bolt pattern...correct?</end quote></div>
No negatives at all, not once did the extra width bother this past spring and summer. So many other benefits sure makes it worth the money spent. Makes the machine really stable and handle like a 'go-cart', off-camber is tremendous (as you can see if you check my pictures), you can traverse across hills with tons of stability.
Be sure to turn your rear springs stiff enough, with the AC the stability comes from the rear suspension and not the front. I am sure you read most of the post but most important one is the first post.
Any negative to spacers other than the extra width?
Thanks for the link. The H1 is 4/115mm bolt pattern...correct?</end quote></div>
No negatives at all, not once did the extra width bother this past spring and summer. So many other benefits sure makes it worth the money spent. Makes the machine really stable and handle like a 'go-cart', off-camber is tremendous (as you can see if you check my pictures), you can traverse across hills with tons of stability.
Be sure to turn your rear springs stiff enough, with the AC the stability comes from the rear suspension and not the front. I am sure you read most of the post but most important one is the first post.
Sep 22, 2007 | 03:56 PM
#59
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
How do you make the AC handle better.
Received and installed my 1" highlifter spacers today. I do have a question...
The wheel studs on the H1 650 are not long enough to use all of the threads in the nuts that hold the spacer on. The wheel studs are holding the nuts by 4 to 5 threads on each stud (the stud nut has 9 threads total). Does this seem adequate? I can tighten them very tight and seem to have a solid connection but wonder if 4 to 5 threads on each bolt is enough.
My only other alternative is stud extenders like:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
The 1" spacer did increase my ground clearance --
back was 13 1/8" and now is 13 3/4"
front was 13 3/8" and is now 14 1/4"
both measurements are unloaded -- a big change!
The wheel studs on the H1 650 are not long enough to use all of the threads in the nuts that hold the spacer on. The wheel studs are holding the nuts by 4 to 5 threads on each stud (the stud nut has 9 threads total). Does this seem adequate? I can tighten them very tight and seem to have a solid connection but wonder if 4 to 5 threads on each bolt is enough.
My only other alternative is stud extenders like:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
The 1" spacer did increase my ground clearance --
back was 13 1/8" and now is 13 3/4"
front was 13 3/8" and is now 14 1/4"
both measurements are unloaded -- a big change!
Sep 22, 2007 | 05:06 PM
#60
Thread Starter
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Pro Rider
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,245
Likes: 0
How do you make the AC handle better.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: roamerr
Received and installed my 1" highlifter spacers today. I do have a question...
The wheel studs on the H1 650 are not long enough to use all of the threads in the nuts that hold the spacer on. The wheel studs are holding the nuts by 4 to 5 threads on each stud (the stud nut has 9 threads total). Does this seem adequate? I can tighten them very tight and seem to have a solid connection but wonder if 4 to 5 threads on each bolt is enough.
My only other alternative is stud extenders like:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
The 1" spacer did increase my ground clearance --
back was 13 1/8" and now is 13 3/4"
front was 13 3/8" and is now 14 1/4"
both measurements are unloaded -- a big change!</end quote></div>
You will notice that the stock lugnut is not very thick - when you put on the spacers the lugnuts use just as many threads as the stock lugnuts. I was concerned with that and thought of smaller lugnuts or other mods but I have had my spacers on for close to 9 months and absolutely no problems. I think in the directions there is mention of the number of threads that the larger lugnuts use - same number as the stock lugnuts.
I also got extra clearance from my spacers, someone argued with me about it, but I did, I have 13.5" both front and rear - well maybe the front is a tad higher but close enough to call it the same. If I turned up my spring preloads I am sure I would have more but I run the front on the lowest setting and the rear on the second to lowest. and if I do on occasion boost the front to the second setting then I turn the back up also.
The wheel spacers are an awesome mod for great handling, especially on off camber situations to say nothing about the 'go-cart' feel while goofing off.
Received and installed my 1" highlifter spacers today. I do have a question...
The wheel studs on the H1 650 are not long enough to use all of the threads in the nuts that hold the spacer on. The wheel studs are holding the nuts by 4 to 5 threads on each stud (the stud nut has 9 threads total). Does this seem adequate? I can tighten them very tight and seem to have a solid connection but wonder if 4 to 5 threads on each bolt is enough.
My only other alternative is stud extenders like:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
The 1" spacer did increase my ground clearance --
back was 13 1/8" and now is 13 3/4"
front was 13 3/8" and is now 14 1/4"
both measurements are unloaded -- a big change!</end quote></div>
You will notice that the stock lugnut is not very thick - when you put on the spacers the lugnuts use just as many threads as the stock lugnuts. I was concerned with that and thought of smaller lugnuts or other mods but I have had my spacers on for close to 9 months and absolutely no problems. I think in the directions there is mention of the number of threads that the larger lugnuts use - same number as the stock lugnuts.
I also got extra clearance from my spacers, someone argued with me about it, but I did, I have 13.5" both front and rear - well maybe the front is a tad higher but close enough to call it the same. If I turned up my spring preloads I am sure I would have more but I run the front on the lowest setting and the rear on the second to lowest. and if I do on occasion boost the front to the second setting then I turn the back up also.
The wheel spacers are an awesome mod for great handling, especially on off camber situations to say nothing about the 'go-cart' feel while goofing off.