Hello, I am new to this board. I was referred here from another BBS.
I was told of a legend in these parts named "Cowboy" who had a solution to the body roll problem. I could really use some help. I am also planning on new tires for this and other reasons. I would like a little advice here. Would 26X9X12 front and 26X12X12 rear be better and if so would they clear under fairly aggressive riding or would I be better off staying with the 25X10X12 all the way around. I am planning on 589 m/ts. Thanks in advance. Sorry for the first post to be a call for help, but I was told this was the place to find the help. JXP

 

Try searching the forum for spring spacers. That should bring up some of the info you are looking for.

 

I did and I have read the posts. I guess it will make a little more sense to me when I get home and look at my shocks closer. I can't really tell where to put the spacers. I was kinda hoping for a picture. or a link to some. Also I need some help on the tire question as well. Thanks, JXP

 

I don't personaly have bigger tires on my 500 cat yet but many guys are riding with 27 inch bi-claw/ tri-claw combos and 27 inch 589's with very little fender rub except on very aggressive riding. I know Texascat and I have rubbed the stock 25 inch tires a couple of times while we were out riding so you will likely get some rub with the larger tires. I've never heard anyone complain about it though or take the larger tires off. You would have to bottom it out pretty good. Some of the guys have also mentioned that the 589 are a bit smaller than their advertised size being 26-26.5 inches for the 27 inch models. That might play to your advantage some. Good luck.

Dakota R/T

 

You know, I've been called many a thing in my day (most of them bad-heh heh heh [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]), but a "legend"-Damn... I'm touched-I'll pretend that's a good thing, and run with it, being ever so careful not to look back! heh heh heh [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Anyway, yeah, if you've already done the search for the "spring spacers", and have read what is there for that, yet are still a little unsure, send me an email or one of those "private message" things, or hell, post here too for all I care-what ever is easiest. Let me know where I can help, I'd be glad to do what I can. I'd be happy to take some pictures for you, but unfortunately I don't have a digital camera, and if I took one now, it might be a few weeks before I actually could post them. My parents just bought a new sony camcorder thing that is supposed to be able to take "still shots", so I'll see if they know how to work it yet, and then see if I can possibly upload to the computer, but don't hold yer breath-I'm not exactly a genius in the electronics department! Anyway, let me know where you're confused and I'll do what I can to help.

As for the tires, yes, I am running 27x9.75x12 Bi Claws up front, and 27x12x12 Tri Claws in the rear. I have an old military mortar box mounted on the front rack with all my recovery gear, and in combination with the winch, a total weight of over 100 lbs. up front. This added weight in combination with the massive 27" 'Claws does cause me to rub occassionally on the plastic fender about 3/4 of the way up the main fender-there is part of the green plastic that sticks out towards the tire about an inch or so, this is what catches on the lugs. With the stock tires, I never had this problem, but then again, I didn't have the weight up front either. Adding my "spring spacers" relieved most of that, so they only rub now during really aggressive riding, when turning to the right if I remember right, or when catching air with the front and landing hard. I don't believe you'll have quite as much problem with just the 27" tires and no weight up front-that 100+ lbs really takes its toll on the front suspension.

As for the 26" tires, I don't think you'll have any trouble at all. As Dakota mentioned, most tires actually measure smaller than claimed heigth, and the 589's are one of those that do. My 'Claws are just the opposite-they are one of the VERY FEW that actually measure taller than claimed heigth-mine measure in at a hair over 27 1/4" at recommended psi! The 589's that I've seen measure anywhere from 1/2" to almost a full inch smaller than claimed heigth, so I'd assume then that your 26"ers would actually measure around 25"-25 1/2" at most. I know my stock 25" 489's only measured 24 1/8" at recommended psi, so I'd assume the 589's to be around the same ratio. With this, NO, I honestly don't think you'll have any problem at all rubbing with the spring spacers installed-the spacers really stiffen up the springs, and remove the body roll as well, while still maintaining ride comfort and adding stability.

I think you will be wise going with a 9" front and a 12" rear-that will improve traction front to back, with a huge gain in the rear, yet allowing for a greater steering ease up front with the narrower tire-good choice, I'm sure you'll be very happy going that route, as opposed to the same all the way around.

As for the lift mentioned in your topic heading, were you considering a lift kit in addition to the springs? I would highly advise against this. If you prefer the lift kit, I would leave out the spring spacers. The lift will give you added lift obviously, while maintaining roughly the same spring characteristics, so the body roll may improve slightly, but will be basically the same. Using spring spacers, you'll gain up to 1 1/2" of lift, while removing basically all body roll and increasing stability in sidehill and other off-camber terrain. The combination of the two-lift+spacers-will put an extreme amount of angle on the cv joints, which will most likely lead to premature wear, so I'd highly advise against using both of them. The nice thing is the lift kit runs around $80???, while the spring spacers you can make yourself for maybe $5.00 tops, and if you're not happy with them, just pull them out and throw them away. I couldn't justify spending $80 on something I might throw away myself!

I know Boner installed both his lift and a modified version of spring spacers-I believe by stacking several of the lower plate washer things (I forget the technical name for them), and rode around like that a little bit. He did get an extreme amount of lift, but I think the ride was next to horrible at best. I'm sure he could tell you exactly what it was like with both, and I think he'd agree with me that you should use one or the other, and not both for normal riding.

Anyway, sorry for the extra long post, but again, if you have any other questions, just give me a hollar, I'd be glad to try and help out the best I can. -if you're interested, take a look at either my "snow pics", or the latest "ride with GrizRick" at the link below for pics of the 'Cat in action!

Best of Luck,

Mike
(Cowboy)

 

I probably don't even need to say anything here, but I will just for added comfort. You can probably even run 28" tires on an AC stock and not have any problems rubbing unless its on the muffler when the rear end is squatted to one side. 26" will fit very easily.

 

Thanks for all the help guys. Cowboy I really appreciate you taking the time to write that post. I also have a winch and toolbox up front. The box is not quite as big as yours. Funny thing is I have never used the winch for myself. I have needed it a few times after I would go up or through something to then turn around and pull some "lesser machines" on up. The lift I was speaking about was the spacers. I just was not sure what to call them. After reading the posts and going home to examine my kitty I understand what needs to happen. The tire information was just what I was looking for. I have had the order laying on my desk for 2 days waiting on info as which to order. I will call it in as soon as the shop opens. It is really nice to see other people discovering what a few of us know. The biggest thrill in the world is to sit at the top of a hill on my cat while my buddys on their Polaris and Hondas just gather at the bottom and shake their heads. I can't wait to get out there with the new tires and spacers. Maybe now I won't have to ride at the back through the trails (so I can make 3 point turns) and then have to go by everyone when we come to a bad place so I can go first. Thanks again for all the help.

Joe Phipps

 

JXP-
No problem, I hope that was of some help at least. When you get ready to do the spacers, let me know if you need any other information. I'm not sure how much weight you have up front, so I'll say that I started out with 3/8" up front at first, but under the heavy load I carry, that gave me the lift, but the springs weren't QUITE stiff enough, so I pulled the 3/8" and put them in the rear, then installed 1/2" up front. I've been happy with the performance of the 1/2" up front since then, and really like the added 3/8" in the rear-it has really helped the machine. I will caution though 1/2" might be TOO stiff for you if you don't have that much weight up front, so you'll have to decide whether you want to try the 3/8" or 1/2" for the front springs. Again, I have over 100 lbs. up front, and 3/8" wasn't quite enough, hopefully that will give you a basis to judge by according to what you carry.

As for the winching bit, this last ride with GrizRick was probably the first time I'd used my winch heavily for pulling myself up something. Usually it is the other way around-I'm on top pulling somebody else up, or winching the suburban, or other logs and such. The pictures didn't turn out as well as I'd like, and unfortunately they don't do justice to how steep the terrain was-winching was required in several areas, but it was a ton of fun, we had a great time doing it.

I will add that Andy is right-I had totally forgot about the rear 12" wide 27" tires rubbing on the heat shield for the muffler-under full articulation with out the spacers, they would barely knock the dirt off the heat shield. With the spacers, they don't do that anymore, again, this is with the larger than claimed heigth 27" 'Claws. Your 26x12x12 rears won't have any trouble at all. And, he's also right about the 28" fitting stock-Scotto had installed the 28" Outlaws on "little bad" (his son's Auto) when they first arrived for a mudride somewhere, and said they cleared up front-I don't remember the specifics, but I know he rode with them for that day anyway. I'm sure they rubbed with aggressive riding and no lift, but with the lift, they're fine. So again, with your 26"ers and the spacers, I don't think you'll have anything to worry about.

Anyway, Best of Luck, and I'm anxious to hear what you think after you get it all set up!

Mike

 

Yeeeeee Haaaaaaa. Worked til about 1:00am Sat. morning making and installing the spring spacers, mounting tires, adjusting valves etc... The Big kitty had to be content with farm duty on Sat. but Sunday Oh Boy. We went riding with 4 other guys that were all good riders so we hit all the "hardcore" trails. This is not the same machine I purchased last spring. It now handles like a 300 sport machine and I have almost no use for 4X4. The other guys were fighting up some of the places in 4X4 and I had no problem in 2wd. The only problem was that noone want to ride behind me now. Anyone that says a 500 cat can't spin 26X12X12s in the mud has not ridden behind me. I was throwing rooster tails 30 feet. I really can't tell I gave up any power but actually gained a little speed on top end with the taller tires. The ride is firmer but I did not buy this thing because I wanted a car. It still rides better than my buddies 500 magnum. Granted the 489 are good stock tires, you have not ridden a cat with its full potential til you have done the "Cowboy lift" installed some real tires. I would like to thank everyone for their help and advice in getting my Big Kitty ready to play. Joe Phipps

 

The AC 500 has the torque to spin 27's in thick mud without problem. I've experienced that first hand. Massive torque. You will blow a cv before you run out of power to turn them over!