I see your point. AC is trying to protect their reputation for reliability and this is a work horse. I hate to see it continually put down by the magazines. They don't really play up the inovative features like the "I" has more ground clearance stock than any Quad made. True, you can't stop this machine and it does make as much torque as a 600. I don't see Cat getting the favorable press it deserves. The press is quick to point out the recall's which are so minor. I see other quads makers suffering huge repair bills from neglected routine maintenance that this quad doesn't need.

Would'nt 10 more BHP be nice for the blast home?

 

Andy, it is my understanding that the Vinson has a much higher compression Ratio than the AC right now. Kinda like the 375 AC compared to the 400. I've wondered myself why AC didnt adopt the vinson engine for their 02 500. I'm certain that my dealer (who sells Suzuki and AC) told me that the Vinson makes more HP than the '02 Cat and there are some architectural differences between the Vinson and AC 500's powerplant. Hey, my dealer my be wrong tho... ;-)

My own opinion on the future of AC:

Rant starts here!

I think there is a signifigant portion of the ATV market that is driven by testosterone instead of logic. Based on this, if I were AC I would produce a 600+cc atv with a Locker to put to rest all of the whining we've heard in the last year or so. Most of us don't NEED more than 400 cc's nor do most of us NEED a locker. However there is a large portion of the market the feels that they do. Because of this they are voting with their pocket books for the Jap bikes and the Polarises because they offer such things. Look at it this way, when ATV first came out 300cc's was a BIG bore. The market has driven the need for larger and larger bores. Now we have 700's and the people that bought the 700 would buy a 1000 if were available. The manufacturer's know this. They are going to make what people will buy whether they need it or not. Wonder what size gas tanks they'll put on the 1000's when they come out? ;-)

Rant is over!

I dont think AC contributes to the financial welfare of the magazines as much as the others do.. You can bet, that the Manufacturer that gives the most money/buys the biggest ads gets the best reviews... that's the hard truth. IMHO

As far a the weight of the AC's go...

My 375 4x4 dry weight 649
4.75 gallons gas + 25
Winch + 40
4 27x10x12 Dirt Devils + 40
1 200 pound man +200
1 12 pack/Cooler/ice +8
1 15 foot tow strap +3
----------------------------
Total 965 lbs, If my son is with me, add 45 lbs.

My bike has never bogged down on the trails. I've ridden with Big Bears (2x4) and Honda 450 ex's and could keep up with them no problem. The horse power and weight thing ONLY matters when you're racing or towing for th emost part. I've pulled a stuck 1990 Ford Aerostar out of the mud in 4WD low with my 15 foot tow strap. At what point do you really NEED the 6-700 is beyond me... It's fun to have bunches of power, and I must admit, there are times that I would like to have more seat of the pants power just for the fun of it.. but I've yet to find a situation where I NEEDED it.

I guess I'll put on my fire proof suit now. ;-)

EtherNut

 

Ethernut, good post! I guess with the Quad makers using twin cylinder engines they are setting up for the possibility of motors 900cc and up. Motorcycles crept up to 1400cc fours and 1800cc twins. The insurance industry will regulate these bikes. Maybe AC is trying to duck the liability that goes with high risk advanced machines and let the japanese manufactures bear the legal expenses. The performace of your 375 is very impressive I can't imagine a 375 has that much grunt. I'm new to the quad sport starting out on a 500 auto. I guess I have not tested the limits of my machine. With bikes (two wheeled) performance was measured in speed...same with dirt bikes.

I have trouble with a manufacturer "detuning" an engine as Suzuki did for the 500 AC. The Vinson has a 36mm carb higher, higher (10.5:1 vs. 8.5:1) compression piston, and the head is ported completely different. The result is, what I would call, a perfect combination of torque and BHP. In fact the head gasket on the 500 AC has three layers of which two can be removed to increase compression. Diliberate "detuneing". I can only guess AC did this for reliability sake.

I guess I need to tow a few stuck cars or pull some stumps to fully appreciate this quad. I am not a "mudder" but more of an all season, hill climber, explorer, type so locking diffs don't appeal to me.

I appreciate the dialog with you guys, I need to hear all sides of the issue so don't hold back.

 

Ethernet
You ranted everything I've been thinking for the last month! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] People simply want to have a bigger quad than "Joe Blow." 1000cc 4x4 quads might as well have the Jeep grill. A little common sense goes a long way. Having no desire to blast along the trail at 40+ mph because of my belief that being riding challenging terrain and sightseeing are more important than full speed blasting. Hey, if people want fast then they should stay away from Cats.
I just picked up the new ATV Magazine and read the cover article last night. Dreams of owning a 500i were crushed afterwards, until I started thinking (sometimes this gets me in trouble). My trusty 250 4x4 rides with bigger quads all day long. It not only goes everywhere they do, but there is always a smile on my face. The enjoyment level is far greater than my old Bayou. Yes, it lacks the speed, ground clearance, and ponies of the bigger machines but who cares? Normally on the trail the ATVs are in a long slow (third or fourth gear, mid range) moving line. Basically, I'm happy and look forward to buying another Cat.
Guess I ranted too![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]

 

I got the 2002 brochure and it said about the 500i; "Welcome to est heaven brother" Biggest, badest, best. More anything than everything else in the 500 class, for utilities. More torque, ground clearance, travel, rack capacity, etc. etc. etc. I took their word for it after looking at most of the competition and couldn't be happier. As I implied before, on another topic, monster bores are for those who can't get enough. I was initially looking at the 300ccers but upgraded for the extra everything! I hunt in farm land and virgin bush and I'm sure this bike will take me anywhere and pull my deer out too!

 

I guess the only thing that I have left to add to this thread is this. With my 375 4x4 in 4wd and low gear, all 4 wheels will break traction before the bike would bog down at all. I have more than enough torque to pull ANYTHING reasonable and I am confident that is true for the 250's and the 300's as well. In fact there have been a few situations that I have hooked up to some <u>really</u> heavy stuff and hit the gas. What happened? All wheels broke traction like it was nothing and I sat stationary grinning like a possum! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

NewCatMan, the 375 won't win any drag races with grizzlies but it has more than enough grunt to push around all 965 pounds of us, and as fast as I persoanlly care to go. I really enjoy riding it!

Now if I could hook up Nitrous to it...... hmmmm [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

Thanks for the support! Glad to see my flame proof suit hasn't taken too much of a beating!

EtherNut

 

First of all, the 454 came out that was built to Arctic Cat's specs, with 9.1:1 compression ratio.

Suzuki decided to take this motor, bore it out and run 493 Engine with an 8.5.1 Compression ratio. Arctic Cat decided that they would also make a 493 cc engine with the same bore as the Suzuki version, but they would keep there 9.1:1 Compression ratio.

Years later, Suzuki decides that they need to actually make some REAL changes with the ATV Line and decides to make a SPORT/utility out of there Quadmaster. This included bumping the compression ratio up to 10.5:1, increaseing the air intake efficenticy (by reporting the head and running a new carb, and maybe more), and completely redesigning the overall chassie of the bike.

So, that Arctic Cat detuned the motor, it's just that Suzuki Tuned up the Vinson's motor. Just like you could if you wanted to spend the money to do so.

 

Ethernut hit it on the head about pulling and power. He said his wheels break traction before his motor bogs out. Great Point!!! Its like the point I tried to make for years about the Polaris Diesel being a waste of time. A 500 sportsman will break traction before it bogs just the same, so why would you need the diesel for more torque?

Quads don't weigh enough to tow stuff that tractors can, and all of the big bores have plenty of pulling power I think. Tow ratings are useless. They are centralized around braking limits and safety. I think everyone knows a Rubicon can tow more than 850lbs.

Another thing. I can't agree on that statement that the 500AC has equal torque to my 660 Grizzly, but I bet I could pull anything with my old AC that my 660 can pull. Difference being the transmission. The AC manual I think is 5 times more suited to pull a load than the crap rubberband tranny of the grizz. 27&quot; tires are easily more noticeable on a 660 than they were on my AC. High range of course. The grizzly automatic isn't setup to pull them well uphill. My AC pulled them a lot better or at least with less strain in high range. The grizz pulls them great in low, but you have to give it more gas to get it to kick in in high range.

Not that the Grizz won't out accelerate the AC with the larger tires, it just takes more throttle to get it going, and you can feel the difference in the tires straining the motor. Give the 660 some gas though, and you can still leave all the stock tired 500's in the dirt. Did this to a Rubicon, and was utterly amazed. Also utterly amazed at how close of a race the 454 gave the rubicon. The magazines made it look like it just ran off and left the AC500, and the old 98 model 454 stayed pretty damn close.

What the hell was I writing about in the first place. I seem to have once again rambled off subject. Oh yeah, you will break traction on an AC before your engine bogs. Yeah, thats it.

 

Another thing- Boner has it right on the Suzuki matter. Anyone who has been watching this all along knows good and well that the AC500 engine was better than the version Suzuki had used in the original 500 they offered.

It wasn't Arctic Cat's problem of detuning a Vinson engine. It was Suzuki waking their *** up and finally making some changes to the engine they had. As a matter of fact, all an Arctic Cat used to be was a better made Suzuki. Still is actually minus the quasar styling and the yellow plastic.

The Vinson is ok, but its something that Suzuki should have made 2 years ago which would have been a good step up from their drum brake equipped 500 that had a paltry 5&quot; of suspension travel. If they had done it then, they would be with the times. Now they are years behind introducing a straight axle quad with sleek styling while everyone else is showing up with new independant models. They are just a step behind. If they own 30% of Arctic Cat, they could at least try to land some access to that ACT rear-end for the Vinson and Eiger. That would improve them a lot.

 

I still think Artic Cat let Suzuki inch forward. Or Suzuki minimized the performance of AC's 500 engine to benifit their Quad. Remember the ACT is patented by AC so Suzuki can't use it. AC took the 9.0:1 compression ratio and lowered it to 8.5:1 for the 2002 500 which is very low for any engine, why? I'm just reporting figures published in an ATV mag. And I know from a notable parts person the AC head gasket is designed to be soemwhat adjustable.

Andy, I think you meant one thing and said another. You said you did'nt agree that the 500 had as much torque as your 660 then described several instances were it does. I agree whole heartedly if the wheels are spinning and you can run bigger tires then you don't have a torque problem. Why did Polaris offer a 500 High output? It does everything the other 500 but faster and....same engine. You see Harley Davidson engines have been doing this for years &quot;detuning engines&quot; which have opened up a world of aftermarket parts suppliers.

&quot;The Detuning Conspiracy Part 1&quot;