Dr Turbo,

Thank you for your post. I agree with everything you said, even with my limited knowlege of pulsing solinoids. I too agree that people look at these threads and even invent new things to build because of some sort of problem or issue that needs to be overcome. I do know that pulsing fuel injectors to a longer pulse width is a great way to add fuel when adding nitrous at the same time. My brain is fine with widening the scope of our conversation in this thread for sure - thats how new things get imagined and built - Its happened before on this very forum! Jed, as you mentioned, and as I too have mentioned, is very brave to come on here and present the facts as he knows them and to look for answers. In the same breath, I can also tell you, even though this forum here is probably the best of all the forums, builders and manufacturers still tend to shy away from it because of common errors and incorrect decisions made by riders in the heat of the moment. We all do it, and we have all seen it. I know of 3 very good builders that refuse to post on here anymore because of negative press over something silly. While I dont think Jed has done this on the forum, it does remind me of things that have happened in the past.

One story I will share is in regards to this. One guy on another forum was complaining the head bolts on his EX pulled away from his cylinder. He was running a 12:1 piston. All he did was bad mouth Honda and the design of that rock solid 400EX motor. I asked him what octane he was running, he said pump regular. I mentioned that I ran a 13:1 piston with 110 octane and didnt have one problem for 2 years. He said I was full of it. So he got bigger, stronger head bolts and ended up frying his piston.

My hope is that this forum will continue to be, and even improve on being open minded to new facts that riders havent even considered. If it stops being so, I know that will be the day I stop posting for sure.

 

Does that mean that I have done it elsewhere?

Nobobdy came on here and said Boss Noss caused my problems. Quite contrary, I have defended it. I know better to blame something that I had control over. Its the things I cant control that I will blame. I like the system, as I have said before. If people take this as NEGATIVE publicity, thats there decision.

I see this aimed all at me Marky, and coming from you I take it personal!

If builders dont want to post on here, thats there porogative. But I ask you this, where did most of there business come from? They can shoot themselves in the foot if there not careful.




Doctor Turbo, thanks for the compliment. I have learned many of the things I know about quads and such right here on this forum. I feel its only right to give back if I can, or to atleast let people know what happens when you do something wrong,lol.

 

Please dont take offense Marky but first reaction looking at this from the outside, It seemed both bikes with that system had near the same issues.. There were other bikes with issues and blowing smoke but all checked out to be not related or have much in common with Nate and Vipers issues as first thought. Jed said he has ran the same fuel in the past with no probs. I know cold air does wierd things. Im definately not putting the blame in any direction. I am not in the position to call this one... The fact that the lectron holding a tune and usually likes to run rich as it is made me I wonder how she went so lean. Like I said before, I just look down at my temp guage constantly to see how hot she gets. I hope you all get this figured out. Jed did ya get the cyl yet? Nos does funny things, I went lean on juice at Glamis and burnt off the plug tips and didnt even know it. With the high temps and 114 fuel I thought i would be rich. But come to find out it was the fuel pump that was loseing pressure and not pumpin with the nos. (wet system)

 

Jed,

This is not aimed at you at all but rather how important carb tuning can be. When I said, "Jed has not done this on the forum" I mean any forum. Also, I know that you called me on Wednesday - Sorry I missed your - we were all out of the office for a company function with cell phones off.

As far as builders and where thier business comes from, I honestly feel that some may come from here, but thats a pretty small piece of the pie. For me, I post simply because I've known most of you guys for the last 5 years. When someone posts a question, I answer, whether it has something to do with business or not. After all, like you said, its more about finding answers through helping others than anything else. Do I get frustrated when people dont listen? Yes. Can I do anything about it? No. Perhaps its best simply to not answer.

When a forum becomes a bash session like other forum sites have become (not caused by anybody here), then it becomes more useless entertainment than truely helping someone. Do I feel this forum is like that? No, not totally. Do I feel your post represents that? No, not at all. Do I fear someday that the reason why others have left the forum may also cause me to leave the forum? Yes.

The problem is that people in general cant separate the person from the work. So, those that do this sort of thing for a living, simply have to acknowlege that. Maybe I havent fully acknowleged that yet - maybe I was hoping it would be different for me. Its true, its a fear I have because not only you and me, but many people on this forum I have been friends with for so many years. I suppose there is a part of me that does not want to let that go. Maybe I should accept the fact that advice that I give will nearly always be viewed as nearly always self serving.

Maybe business and friends dont mix. If thats true, I've lost a lot of friends today.

 

Mario,

Absolutely no offence taken at all. Im good with it. I've given the info about how cold air can affect tuning and I dont feel Jed is blaming the system at all. I think he wants to know what happened. Thats why I've posted those sites with regard to calculators and how cold air effects air density. Could it be something else - Yes. But considering the main difference between Jed and Nates damage and that Jed wasnt even running nitrous when it happened tells me that it happened when he was on all carb. Logically, I look at it like if something gets damaged to the point its burning oil and that increased damage happens when he's on all motor without nitrous - and the fact that there was a 40 degree temp loss - which could equal 2300 foot drop in elevation, tells me thats the first place I should look. Not to mention I've been running this system for 4 months myself - along with many others - makes me think whats the difference? All the things talked about, temp, carb, nitrous, fuel, octane, nitrous tuning - are all valid things to consider. In the end we all will eventually come to our own conclusion. I have mine based on my own experience. Others will have thiers. Just the fact that we dont agree dosn't mean we still can't talk, at least I hope thats the case.

Its possible it could be a fuel pump. With this system, the fuel pump would have to be irratic - pumping different volumes throughout the cycle. If the fuel pump was consistant, albeit pumping low volumes, the tuning the MFM would make that work correctly. Then again, getting two fuel pumps to go wack on the same cold day is hard to fathom - especially when they were working great for the previous three days.

 

All motor lean would tell all. I know if it was me It would be eating me alive not knowing the exact culprit. (thats just me though... Especially thin air.


As for the forums, In life you have to "deal" with the good and bad. So on the forums I just try to read stuff posted by people I am a little familliar with. Other than that I agree, There are a whole gang of friends on this site. Speaking of old frinds Id like to know where the heck whsrdskn is and Eaglecollector?


And for bussiness and friends mixing, They do it just takes a high level of maturity, patience, and thinking things through, Oh did i say patience.

 

Mario,

Thanks! That gives me hope. I agree, if this happened to me it would be eating me alive too. I look back on Jeds build - Pretty darn balzy! New motor, new head, new carbs, new pipes, new nitrous, new suspension - thats a lot of variables to figure out if something went wrong. Like the jet airliner that crashes - Its seldom ever one thing that goes wrong.

 

Detonated on motor and then the nitrous just accelerated your failure on such a drastic temp drop. Case closed. Next question [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

"Ive got big *****, youve got big *****, but Ive got the biggest....... ***** of them all"!!

Fine, I wont take it personal. I know it is hard to find the fine line between advice from a friend, or advice as a company. And its hard for us to sit on the other side and decide which way it is as well.

I will find the problems that caused my failure, that you can bank on. Its just a matter of time.

Mario, yes I did get the cylinder, and with a couple more coats of paint, she might get put on today. I thank you much, and owe you big!!

As for friends on this forum, you bet your **** we got alot of them. Thats the best part of Ds days, finally getting to put a name with a face, and seeing all the folks again. Its a shame in my opinion, that people dont post on here anymore because of bad publicity. I know some are trying to run a business, but somethings are more important than money. Friendship is one of them, and thats what they will all miss the most. I know of another builder that has them same thoughts Marky, and I hope he still posts here. If anything, to keep in touch with his friends.

 

Well put Mario, it has been eating me alive I think I have finally made peace with it all, as Choose put it:

I should have been running the recommended octane from my builder instead of second guessing and trying fancy formula's to figure octance adjustment for elevation, ect. Being cheap on fuel cost me a brand new piston, a jug, and all the time and $ I put in too it.
I really dont think I was lean on the carb but I cant be sure I've never dyno'ed it or checked the a/f ratiotp see how a drastic temp change could affect it. We will see when its back together and it goes on the dyno, something else I had planned to do before running nitrous on the hill but ran out of time and patience before the big trip. The sad thing is that I was so close to the edge of not having a problem its sick, the damage was so slight to the piston, just enough to do the job I guess.

I dont care what system you are running nitrous is a risk, running higher compresion is a risk, running advanced timing is a risk, not enough octane, not properly tunned, sleeved 720, 855, EFI, Turbo, they are all risks some more than others but we have to take responsibility for deciding to bolt them on good or bad.

The Boss Noss system is the safest system out there, I ran it 3 full days with no issue, Marky's been running it on a bike with smaller tolerances for running juice for months now, but it involves risk it would be stupid to not admit it. Just like eveything else we do to our bikes it has to be set up properly and all the components must be working together for it to work properly. I am willing to admit that I created a problem by not making absolutley sure that I was properly tunned before adding the juice, and not running a high enough octane on top of that, so how can I place any blame beyond that? I will not make the same mistake again, and if I ever get over the negative thoughts I have toward running nitrous in general at this point, my bike will be ready next time I hit the button.

The friends I have made and great advice I have gotten here........It would be a shame to loose all of that. As far as my relationship with Marky and others I have met on the forum I think about it this way........ without all of the great people I have met I would never have my bike to where it is now, faster than I ever thought it would be, busted up more than I hoped it ever would be. You have to take the good with the bad, we all take chances to go just a little bit faster and climb something a little bit longer and steeper. Its what the game is all about.

Does that answer your question 222??

Nate





Text