The only reason I use the adjustments on my shocks, is to *TRY* to get a softer ride when I'm trail-riding, and stiffer settup when I'm jumping. Do you think if I get a shock set up properly for my riding style I won't need the adjustments?

 

First that was some intereting info on the oil. Only thing I can think to add is that there is a very large difference between how, and how fast a conventional "fossil" fuel oil and a fully synthetic oil break down from heat (thermal breakdown).

And thats the story for hydraulics or any other oils, and if its a synthetic blend it will not compare to the full synthetic and will be closer to the less expensive petroleum or "fossil fuel" oil. Reason is that with the base stock of the blends being a petroleum based oil they break down from their base etc.

Now on to the problems with the fully adjustable stock shocks.

I have not had a chance to mess with those on the 450-r but just from understanding the economics of things I have to think these shocks are not anything like the fully adjustable Elka or Axis etc. I also have to think that just like when running the more diffulcult regions of the rock ladden mountains of PA it would be a benefit to have both a larger amount of total travel and a shock that was set up for your specific application. Knowing this I am going to go ahead and say that you would deffinately benefit from a full aftermarket suspension, but then that may be more $$$ than your interested in investing.

You actually seem to have a sort of similar situation to what I see here. In that I mean one day I can be riding in super soft sand, and then the next be riding in almost exclusivly hard pack and rock. I deff do use much of the adjustment on my set up to make these two very different conditions as comfortable as possible, but I also accept that no matter what I mess with my set up that was designed for XC riding will not be a great performer on those rare occasions when I visit a mx track.

Problem is that though these shocks were set up for my weight, terrain, and experience they cant be best at all those different scenerios, and even with making adjustments to preload, comp and rebound I wont be able to get the full benefit that I would have if it was originally set up for mx, but I can make it better by making those adjustments so its still a major benefit.

So yes you have options that will allow a much better overall ride (one tough thing here is that the less you spend most times the less you will get too) and with a good set of shocks alone you will see a difference, but trust me you will never see as plush a ride as you would on a well set up bike. I know from my own experience that you can make it close, but with all the weight and tire OD differences we have to accept being at a disadvantage. I have been frustrated with this problem since getting back into riding and always compare how much better even the old style dirt bikes handled the rough stuff than the quads I have ridden. This is something I have just learned to accept.

Dont think that means you will always be miles behind your two wheeled friends, but rather you will just need to work harder at it when you are all WOT. I have suprized more than one dirt bike riding friend by sneaking up and passing them thru the many whooped out hi speed fire roads we have around here, and even one on a yzf450 (maybe a 426 not really sure) but when push comes to shove unless you are a much better rider and or in much better physical shape the advantage will be going to the bike.

Now as far as an answer to your best approach to getting to this point of "being close" I can only offer to think of it as I did, and that if you value your butt and accept that in order to be fast you need to be able to keep the tires in contact with the trail etc suspension is not the area to try and save $$$. Sure get your best price(s) and make a decision you are happy with, but save the low cost bargain thinking for other mods like bars or graphics etc.

 

Wise words...and you've just re-inforced what I've been mulling over in my mind for the last few weeks. I think I'll keep my wheeler, for dunes and track, but I think I'll save my money and put it toward a new bike, rather than dumping $2000 on suspension for my wheeler, only to make it *better.* That way I can have the best of both worlds, and won't be kicking myself for the next few years.

 

I understand your thinking and its not bad or anything but if $$$ allow I would deff go with the full aftermarket setup on the quad plus the new two wheeler.

Thing is for me at least is that I really hate riding a quad with stock suspension, and though the newer stuff is a whole lot better than we have seen before (the cannondale, yfz and pred500 have impressed for being stock, and I hear the stock set up on the honda is really sweet also) its still not in the same league as a properly set up aftermarket, and especially a true long travel set up.

An A class XC racer I have rode with a couple times had this comment after putting in more than a few races on the yfz he had with revalved stock suspension "I cant wait to get in the new shocks and a-arms as this thing rides like a rock compared to my 250R I raced last year, and I still find myself using it for the tougher courses" I think that pretty much explains it all in this comparison.

Good luck either way you decide and I know I have been giving the two wheeler idea more thought lately, but with the avail land and access problems we have around here I am leaning more towards something that can be made road legal but still favor the dirt side of dual purpose.

 

i got a qwestion on my 77 it 175 i keep bottoming out over the littleist jumps. i bought new sprokets and the back one is 51 teeth , so its big , so big that it hits the exhaust pipe. i have the spring tightned all hte way bit its still week. im thinking since its 30 yearas old maby all the nitrogen has leaked out and needs refilling. how much would this cost?. and do you think that a honda shop would do it to my yamaha.

 

I cant believe it took me this long to find this thread. Well heres my question. I have yfz front shocks on my 2004 warrior. I have a raptor shock wich I believe is an 02 I cant remember (last year before piggy back rez). Anyways the raptor shock raised my back end a bit(actually alot like 3 inches). What its doing is causing the chain to put more pressure on the bottom chain roller and its waering out really fast. I had to have someone push down on the grab bar to let some slack off the chain so I could get the new roller on. So... I'd really like a good rear shock. Nothing more than what I need. I'd like to do it right though. I'm 5'11 and weigh 165. I ride pretty much trails. I want something to give me a smooth ride. Ive heard of works and I like their prices but wich one should I get. (quadstar or whatever) I also got some armadillo +2 a-arms and a g-force +2 to +4 rear axel. Will the yfz shocks still work for up front. When I put the yfz shocks on it raised the front a little. They are still at stock settings. Should I make addjustments for a smoother ride and how? Any thoughts and advice would help. Thanks

Jacob

 

wearwolf, if the shock hasn't been re-built in the last 30 years, the nitrogen could still be fine, but i'm willing to bet money that the oil is worn out, and especially the spring. the spring would be the main reason why you're having so much trouble. i would have it re-built from the ground up if possible, if not, buy a new aftermarket shock. aftermarket shocks actually cost less than stock, unless you get the really high end ones.

 

With the age of the machine there are a lot of things that could be working against you. I would check out all the bearings (a smoothly operating swing arm works a lot better than one with frozen bearings etc) then consider my $$$ situation and decide between a rebuild, new shocks, or a newer machine [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

I like the old stuff so dont take that wrong, and with rebuilding running just below or above $100 for most shocks (excluding any needed shafts or springs etc) its not a big ticket item to freshen up, but depending on your weight and how you ride you may want to look into having it set up a little better for your needs while your at it, and this is where the $$$ can start to go up.

From there you can look at things like why such a large sprocket (could the other smaller one be changed to allow use of a smaller rear?)

Hope that helps

 

Sure its not those bearclaws raising the rear [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

I know some one else who had 23 or 24" tires in the rear and it really made the front end seem horrible.

Your situation is one of those that is very common since you have some $$ into your atv and your trying to make it better etc, but your only finding little if any success in the suspension.

I have talked with more than a few people who have tried different models shocks that claim to be happy, but have only seen one in person that I know seemed to work well (not perfect, but better than I ever expected) this was on a custom blaster with extended everything (the swinger was like a +6 or 10 or something like that) it had a redone rear off of some other yami, and the fronts were from the yfz450, and with the added leverage of the a-arms it seemed to actually be pretty close. Over all it sat pretty level and with the added length and width it seemed to handle well too, but most suprizing was how well the suspension action was and it didnt seem too soft or harsh, but again this is one out of many.

Ok here are my thoughts and based on both results and dollars I would first get the front straightend out. Make sure you can relate to who ever you have work on them that there may be differences in the stroke and shock length so that you dont just throw money away. I start here because this is where the warrior is the worst in the suspension dept.

Once your happy with these results (yea even if you leave them alone lol) go find your rear oem shock and start looking for someone local to help you decide if your better off with changing the rappy rear or rebuilding the stock one. I had very good results with just a basic rebuild and slightly stiffer valving on my warrior and though nothing like the aftermarket stuff it was worlds better than the worn out mess it was when I got the atv. What I like most was that with the old "broken in" springs and new valving it was able to handle the harder landings much better, but still be more plush than ever b4 on the little stuff. I mean yea it was still a warrior with a stk rear shock , but I cant even think where to start in comparing it to those awfull fronts.

Now if you dont mind paying for the works (quadstar and stadium I think they call them) thats the best way to go, and if you straighten out the issue with the fronts your all set.

Last thing is that you may want to take a look at your chain adjustment to see how it plays into the extra pressure on the rollers.

 

Ok... thanks for the info. My front shocks are ALOT better than the stock ones. Obviously because they are off the yfz. I'm not too worried about the front. But the back is mainly my concern. Yes the tires raised the back a tad but with the shock being taller my seat doesnt sit as close to the tires as it did which causes the chain to rest(actually push)on the bottom chain roller. So I know its not the tires. I had the tires on way before the shock and never had a problem. The new roller is worn quite a bit already and I havent had the shock on for very long at all. I just wanna do it right. So like you were sayin with redoing the rear stock shock. Who should I have do it and what kinda prices am I lookin at. Not tryin to sound like Im some rich guy but money really isnt an issue but I dont wanna spend money thats pointless, like buyin Elkas when all I do is really trail ride. But... if buying a brand new works shock or something is like 100 or so more than getting mine rebuilt than is it better to get the works or is the rebuild just as good. Ya I have the money but I dont wanna be stupid with it. Just need something to get the job done.