^^^^good .02

 

Any other opinions on the three?

 

I got some good info, thanks guys.

 

I have some PEP ZPS coming, the wait is killing me.

 

I have a set of the Elka's without rezzies for my 250r and I have ridden many bikes with works suspension. In your discription you stated that you are a fast trail rider. Get the works. You will be very happy. The works suspension is known to be overly soft and smooth in any invironment. The problem with them is that they use ball valveing inside wich means the only real way to set them up for you is with the springs and spring preload. They are so soft, that if you are racing they cause some wallering in the corners- but this is when you are pushing it pretty hard. If you are simply a fast trail rider, you will appreciate being able to go faster with the works due to there smooth ride that will keep you comfortable all day long.
For the really fast trail rider and racer, any other type of aftermarket shock will be better. This is because all other brands use a shim type valving set up wich is MUCH more tuneable to differrent riding styles. The Elka's without rezzies have given me problems. However, the company is really helpful and they are deffinately willing to work with the customer. I could have allready sent them in to have them set up more for me, but I decided that since I hardly get to ride at all anyways- I would just wait to send them in when I get the money for the rezzies and kill two birds with one stone.
My problem with them is simple, they are just way too stiff. My theory is that when they were building them, they were assuming that reservoirs would be installed but towards the end they realized that I ordered them without rezzies and that's what screwed everything up. I should be sending them in within a week or so, I will be getting compression adjustable rezzies installed and hopfully they will be smoothed out quite a bit.
The reason I went with the Elkas is because I was short on cash but I wanted a high quality shock that I could build on when the cash came in. That is what I got. If I didn't race, or more importantly- if I didn't jump really big, I would have went with the works.
JP

ryangibson- I agree with some of what you say and then disagree with other things. Not having rezzies doesn't mean it is a bad shock, this is true. However, reservoirs do MUCH more than help with heat dissipation. By separating the oil and nitrogen it gives the shock an entirely different feel. It also allows for more internal tunability and the external compression adjustment. Not having rezzies does not mean bad shock, but having rezzies will nearly double the desired performance of a shock.

 

You can add rezzies when you get more cash anyway. Ive got Elkas and I love them.

 

So what's the difference between check ball type valving and shim type valving? I was under the impression that check ball type valving was the best, because it is adjustable. For example, you have a steel ball being pressed against a vein with a spring, and an adjustment screw pressing on the spring to adjust tension on the ball.

When you hit a bump, the increased hydrolic pressure pushes against the ball, and the effective area of the vein increases as the spring compresses, and ball is pushed back. Then in turn, with a variable rate spring, they are able to change the amount of hydrolic resistance based on the pressure that is created by compressing the shock.

For example, if you land a big jump, there will be more pressure, and will push the check ball all the way open on a linear rate spring. However, with a variable rate spring, the vein will resist opening all the way on all but the largest jumps...

 

Very good Ryan. That is the most descriptive explaination of ball valving I have ever read and it is right on the money. I am not sure why they perform so poorly. It seems that everything works just the way you have described, but when forced to go to the next level- complete failure is a certainty. Works suspension is the only company that uses the ball valveing and when you move to the their top of the line shocks (I think they are called the pro series) they change over to the shim valveing. With shim valveing you have what is called a "piston." This piston is basically a very thick disc with tunels going through it. To change out the piston for one with larger tunells or simply smoother tunnels is one way to tune the shock. But the majority of tuning happens through the shims. The shims will go on each side of the piston and they are VERY thin disks and I assume they are made of stainless steel. Very thin metal like say a pop can will flex alot. All of this is attached to the shock shaft and as it goes up and down, the shims are like a paddle in the oil causing resistance to movement. In order for the oil to pass over the shims, the shims must flex. Once through the shims, the oil must still flow through the piston. The more shims, the stronger they will resist to the flexing. On the back of the piston, the more shims, the slower the rebound of the shock and on the front of the piston the more force it will take to compress the shock. I may have this a little backwards, but I think you'll get the point.

In any case, Axis, PEP, Elka, TCS, etc., etc, all use shim type valveing. It is deffinately the best.
JP

 

Very interesting, thanks for the lesson!

I think for the average rider (like myself) adjustable check-ball valving is better, because I do a lot of different kinds of riding. For someone that has a very specific kind of riding that they do (MX) tuning the shock with shims probably would be better. Unfortunately, to get the most out of your shim-tuned suspension, you would have to have it tuned for each track you are on!

My cousin is friends with the guy that built the first shock dyno. Pretty cool guy. Used to be a pit crew chief or something like that for several of the big named Nascar racers. He's fun to talk to about this stuff. Sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of it yourself though! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

I'm a little confused. It seems like you are saying that you will be able to adjust your ball valving on a whim? Is this right? If so, this is very new to me. I am sure that I missread you because the only adjustment that can be made to a shock without tearing it open are the compression, rebound, and preload adjustments regaurdless of what's on the inside. For most riders, the ball valving is best because most will never have theirs set up any differently than the way they come from works and they offer a good cushy ride. Most riders are like, "Oh man! Did you see that? I was probablyTo just through out numbers, I'd say that 70% of the people who buy the shocks like the Axis, PEP, and TCS will never push them hard enough to be truly appreciative- they could have saved a lot of money and went with the works and been just as happy with the performance but then they wouldn't have had the name.
For example- I did some Ice racing recently and I saw two quads decked out with long travel custom axis and another with regular elka's--the only racing these people did was on the ice! What a waste. They probably could have done better with stock shocks that have been shortened to give a low stance. There are a lot of people that just love throwing around their money, I just hope I can get some of it someday.
JP