I am not really suprised that Honda didn't significantly update the 400EX. They gave it the same wierd look as the 450R and added reverse. I am not impressed at all with the new 400, I just wonder why the gear ratio changes and why does it have a 38mm carb? It doesn't need them, at least I dont think so. It doesn't make sense to make the 400 with liquid cooling, it is one of the most reliable motors in the atv industry as it is. Although it would be nice. Maybe the 11 pounds of weight come from the new plastic along with the reverse gear, and the mechanism to engage reverse. I don't know I am just guessing. I honestly can not see how Honda or a Honda dealer can justify the $5700 price tag either. It is deffinately a stupid move, considering the Z400 and it's clones are packing alot more technology for the same price.

As for the 650R/EX, Honda doesn't have the testicular fortitude to come out with a machine like that. I don't plan on seeing one for a long time, if ever. It would be an amazing machine tho. I would probably buy one. I hope that when/if the 650 ever comes out it will be in an aluminium frame with the same size and weight as the 450's. Actually, doesn't the XR650R make something like 43 - 50 horsepower depending on the dyno? Isn't that about the same as the current 450 dirt bikes? So then again, why should they come out with a 650R/EX when the 450R would perform the same or slightly better?

With Suzuki, Kawasaki, and Polaris catching up to Yamaha in the Sport/High Performance atv's, it seems like Honda is at the bottom of the pile. Yes, they have the 450R, 400EX, and 300EX,but the 300 is almost or over 10 years old, the 400 is almost 6 years old and the 450R performs worse than some people expected, it is still a nice machine by the way. With Honda being the supposed industry leader I wonder how long it will take before people realise that they are just buying the Honda name and the worst in class machine. I thought this would be the year that Honda would shock the industry, but instead they have just let most people down.

 

maybe i can be the first to say i heard from my uncles cusin whos great grandaddy died but he knew his uncle that usta work at honda and they said a lil more testing for the 650...but next year!!

lol....hadda do that for all the ppl who actually do it for real...........
cant wait to hear whats next for honda from um.....
repeat this is a joke....

 

Yes, it is. When you compare it to the 05 Z400, Honda still comes up short.

 

Umm? Again No! Have you ever ridden a Raptor? The power and torque is awsume but their chassie is ALL wrong. Now, picture that power combo on a 400EX chassie............SWEET!!! THATS why we wanted to see a 650EX. The 450R is geared better for MX, it has no electric start, and it will not go slow when needed to.

 

Yes, I have ridden many stock and modifed Raptors and I was not impressed at all. My crappy 400EX has more power and low end torque than all the stock Raptors I have ridden and a few of the piped ones. I am not trying to start anything against people with Raptors. Raptors stock are not impressive at all. I am also not saying that my 400EX is that great it's not, it just has more torque that just about any quad I have ever ridden. It was also built to have the most power possible out of 416cc with out an overly agressive cam.

I have only lost to a Raptor once in a drag race and that was in the 1/4 mile. The Raptor had me by 3 MPH top speed, thats the only reason I lost. Again, not impressed at all with Raptors.

I have ridden with many people on Raptors and we have to stop about every 25 minutes in tight wooded trails to let the Raptors cool off because the clutch starts to slip badly. It's not as bad on the newer Raptors but it is still a problem. Changing the gearing is pretty easy, I'm sure that there are people with 450R's that have changed the sprockets so that first gear doesn't seem as tall. As for the electric start, that was Hondas idea for the kickstarter. Yamaha decided to make kickstarting an option. Which is the better idea? Yamaha's.

Yes you are right about the power of the big bores. The 450s need to be revved out to make decent power and the 600+s just have that torque to pull from a lower rpm and don't need to be ridden as hard to go fast.

I just seem to have lost faith in Honda. It seems as tho the lawyers and bean counters are running that company and not the people who actually get out ride.

 

You're assuming people want more "technology" (whatever that means anyway--gas engines have had water cooling since almost their inception). I mean it's just a quad, not a computer. Simple = reliable. Why have coolant to check and replace if you really don't need it. The 400ex isn't meant to be a race machine, just a fun intermediate level one. It does that just fine with it's low "tech" motor and Honda will sell plenty of them as is. Besides, 90% of the new 400ex customers couldn't care less how the motor is cooled. They just want good ergos, a starter, reverse and decent performance. The high end users will buy a 450 anyway.

If anything, the Z is out of place these days with the release of the 450's. All of the complexity of a water-cooled engine but not in the same class power-wise (at least stock).

 

Good post 35Charlie but as I said in that post When, I was refering to technology I meant that the engine is more advanced with liquid cooling, nikasil coated cylinder, dohc, the suspension, now that it has reservoir shocks is more advanced. There may be more but it is early and I am getting tired. You are correct tho, however, wouldn't you rather get more for your money? I think most people would. Checking the radiator fluid isn't that big of a deal. I would rather have liquid cooling just for peace of mind. That is just my opinion tho but, as you said most people don't really care as long as it runs and they can have fun.

 

The 400EX's place in the world is as an entry level performance bike. At that level, a basic low tech air-cooled machine is very appropriate. That combined with great handleing and ergo, make it a great choice for the first time buyer. But, HONDA GOES AND SABOTAGES ITSELF with a price that is $500 to high!!! I hope dealers will discount the new EX, even if the manufacturer won't. Otherwise, it will be fighting a losing battle against the Z400.

The Z400 is definitely a step up from the EX. It fills a nice niche right in there between the 400EX and the 450's. Don't sell the Z short! That engine is a PEACH, and proving to be every bit as reliable as the EX. Moded up, that engine can scream!

The 450's are not the best choice for the average rider, because of higher maintenance, close-ratio transmissions, etc. These engines need to be ridden revved out, which isn't the hot setup for slow trail riding. Most people should be on one of the 400's, or if they are larger and heavier, one of the big bores.

 

Well said, blviper!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]

Enforcer, you don't know what a well put sentence is. Blviper, what's wrong, can't stand the fact of even listen to a little jab that yes, a yfz is faster that a 400ex and a trx450. No need to start the name calling unless that is the limitation of your vocab. You were being the great Internet mercenary so what now, standing up for the Honda's that you don't even own? You're so scrawy your legs look like you need to be in a wheelchair toughguy.

 

Honda puts their ideas to test for at least 3 years before their release. I like the new look for the ute line-up this year, everything looks a whole lot better and less plain jane. I'm not saying every other brand of quad out there is horrible and no-one should buy anything else, but Honda has always had reliability on their side. I actually can't wait for Kazuki to come out with a 450 version of their quad to see how it stacks up on the trails near my house, or let alone my track. My boss will be coming back from the show and I'll hear the new news on the new models, so be sure to check with me then.