I think that Honda is giving the consumer what they want us to have, instead of what the consumer is wanting. I have always been a huge Honda fan but here is my case.
Up until the Honda Rincon every machine seemed to be better than it's predecessor. The Honda Rubicon is a great machine. I have owned 4 of them and I love it. I couldn't wait for the Honda Rincon but I was never happy with it from day 1. Honestly it has a lousy tranmission. It doesn't hold back going downhill, it shifts way too hard (always at the wrong time) and it a very non-technical utility based machine. If you want to go fast it is great, but how does that differ from a sport machine?
The next introduction was the Honda Rancher AT. I was expecting a Rubicon Jr. Again, I purchased one but it doesn't have a low range and most of all they didn't revalve the suspension. It has a very harsh ride and there are times when you are stopped on steep uphills that the tranmission won't spin up enough to get your going.
Their lastest introduction - 450 sport doesn't have electric start. They did this to save weight and make it competitive with the other high performance machines, still the Yamaha 450 has electric start but will beat it cleanly in a race.
I wish there was a way to get the message to Honda they are not giving us what we are wanting. I have purchased twenty four 4 wheelers since 1983 and almost all of them have been Honda's. I have been so unhappy with the Rincon I traded it in yesterday on a new Suzuki King Quad 700. All you Honda fans would be surprised how refined it is. Why is Honda not going in this direction? Are they afraid of hurting their car business?

 

before i get into the 450 spill, i would just have to say that ive been a honda man for years. my first bike was a ATC110, and weve had soo many bikes since then. however, fair is fair, and i give credit where it is due. I think suzuki is doing a good job and are making a good comeback. since they invented quads, it was kinda puzzling of how complacent they were back in the day and they let the other OEM's pass them up in every catagory. there seems to be a new determination and fire in their eyes to get to the top - something that they lacked in the late 80's and early 90's. honda is getting a flame, but they lack the fire they had back then. remember that time? honda dominated everything. they took the ball and ran with it. now yamaha really has the ball and suzuki is coming after it. c'mon honda!

Now. the quote i have up there. uh oh. dont say that too loud, especially the electric start thing. 'true RACE quad doesnt have electric start' is what you are going to hear. but all the top pros' (except farr) bikes have estart. doug gust. ellis. balance. duvall. yokley. are their machines not RACE quads? are they any less of a rider if they push a button? are they less of a man if they do?
i read where ballance even said that he wouldnt race on the 450R due to the electric start thing- it would cost too much time -when it stalled out and getting it started again...(hmmm. imagine that..that little button starting the engine faster than a leg...) he jumped to the YFZ. jeremiah jones alot of good things about the the estart on the YFZ as well. he rides one too.
once again, these are top pros saying this...they get paid to do this. we WISH we got paid to do this!

i agree with your overall assessment- i think yamaha did their homework with the YFZ. is it perfect? no. but it does have a higher level of performance. the 450r is a good bike. i have one, and its impressive...to a point. it has a smooth, strong engine, exlellent shocks and good reliability factor and is well built and comes with more user freindly maintenance - typical honda (in my experience) and a way better seat than the YFZ! i like the fact that honda reworked the engine for TRX durability...but there is alot of hype that it just doesnt deliver on that even the 250R can beat it in. it is no legend replacement - it's another gap filler to stay with yamaha.
honda needs to revise it in '06 or '07 with estart option, change the gear ratios (for those of you that have a 6speed - you know what i mean), lower the center of gravity, give it better balance/stability, and a slighlty longer swingarm, plus keep the weight at 350 like yamaha did.

until they do, i have considered trading mine for a YFZ, or i may build my own LTZ-450.

 

I will agree that Honda has a little work to do in some areas.......but the overall lineup is dominant.

If Honda wasn't giving the consumer what it wanted....overall.... they would not be the number selling brand in the business....simply put.

You can address certain features from certain machines in the lineup when compared to others in a rival's lineup....but Honda has the best overall lineup.

Recon vs Bruin 250? 400EX vs Raptor350? BigBear4x4 vs Rancher350 4x4?

Notice anything here? The best selling classes are dominated in sales by Honda and it's very easy to see why when compared to the #2 guy in the market.....Yamaha.

Just my .02

 

First of all, there are a dozen posts just like this already on the board, so I'm not sure what's the point of another one? If you do a search, you will see that all the comments will have been made before, a bunch of times. In a sense, this topic has degraded into nothing more than mental ************!

The beauty of a free market is that buyers get to vote every time they make a purchase. The beauty of a forum like this is that we get to encourage prospective buyers not to make the same mistake (real or perceived) that we did, and therefore we have an added effect on the market. If people don't like a product it won't sell, and the manufacturer will learn a hard lesson. For example, Cannondale is now out of the motorsports business. Polaris just announced that they are now out of the watercraft business, etc. The process works well, but is obviously to slow for a generation that has been raised to expect the solution to any problem, in the time span of a 2 hour movie.

The magazines also have an effect on the market. Who are the magazine guys? A bunch of So. Calif. motocross dudes. Naturally, they are going to always prefer the MX bike (YFZ!) over everything else. As for the 450R (more of an all-around bike rather than pure MX), only time and the market will tell. From what I observe out on the trail, these bikes are selling well, kick start or no! I think in the end, Honda will be laughing at its critics, all the way to the bank.

Honda is the #1 seller, and the Rancher is Honda's #1 seller. That fact will tell you more about where the real market lies, than anything else. Even though they keep building huge heavy and complex automatic utilities, it is interesting that the consumer continues to purchase the simple little air-cooled, manual transmission Rancher (that doesn't cost a fortune)! We have to keep in mind that folks in the forum are enthusiasts, and are always going to want the "cutting-edge, top of the line" machine. But, most of the mass market just wants a little mellow machine, that is fun to ride. If you go to a riding area around here (this is sport bike country) and watch people unload, you will typically see something like dad on a 400EX, mom on a 250EX, and the kids on a TRX90.......and everybody having a great time!

 

i like what honda has giving people i think that they shold stick with it...there engines are simple and not to complex with all sorts of electrical wires and fancy dohc and other "hi-performance" good fast goodeis that other companys are putting out all of this is just more to break i love my 400ex i wouldn't trade it for the world

 

Will people quit whining about honda?

If you dont like what the company is doing, buy something else. If you dont want to buy something else, shut up.

I just bought something else when Honda wasnt up to snuff. And that was back in 02.

 

Will people quit whining about honda?

If you dont like what the company is doing, buy something else. If you dont want to buy something else, shut up.

I just bought something else when Honda wasnt up to snuff. And that was back in 02.

In response to this comment, I did buy something else. However, I still really like Honda and I wish they would be Pro-active instead of so Re-active. True they did introduce (and are the only ones to have) a GPS, which I really like on the Rubicon. But they were the last ones with floorboards, and automatic tranmission, and a Big Bore Utility and the list goes on and on.

Honda's have long been my favorite ATV and that is the reason I created this post. I wish they were the inventors and not the copiers. Because when they finally introduce it, it is the best out there (except the Rincon tranmission).

They seem to me as if they are playing it safe and I wonder how long they will stay #1 if it lasts.

 

honda needs more power and a FULL LOCKER on there big bore 4x4,s.then they might get ahead of the competition.especially if they perfect the big bore tranny.like the rubicon tranny.thats a sweet tranny.they need that tranny in a v twin that has a full locker and irs.then some heads will be turning.

 

They are the inventors.............of the entire market. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

Not True!! Suzuki invented the 4 wheeler. It is even in their motto 'First on 4 wheels".