Wow that really sucks. I'm lucky so far. my 420 even started no problem in -20 celcius. It sucks Honda treated you like that. Its a shame really. So far no problems, knock on wood...

 

when its been really cold i had to hit the throttle a couple times....but it start right up

 

Thanks Gimpster! I am going to print your response off and show the dealer....just in case they pull some....b#%^s&^t and tell me that it is not covered under warranttee and I owe them a $200 "inspection fee" I am usually OK with Dealerships but the attitude expressed by the service manager where I bought the ATV has been terrible to date. Imagine that he has never seen or heard of a problem with the ES models and he has been there 20 years. I bought an FM due to the sound advice of this forum expecting little problems.
I will have them service it the way you suggested.

Thanks again...

 

EDIT: Honda rules

----- Gimpster -----

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Gimpster

Sorry for going off. I normally don't

You have to realize that I have taken these units, let them set overnight, went out at 4 AM in below zero temps to attatch our HDS (Honda Diagnostic Tester) to these units and unable to get readings because it was too cold, or because connectors break when you touch them. I also have taken warm IACS valves and installed them in freezing cold temps ( that were warm from in my pocket right after bringing them from 70 degree inside temps) and installed them. ECMs also with no success of a cure. They will barely start when it gets below 10 degrees. Now add the wind chill at 10 degree to below zero temps trying to figure out what is wrong. Try reading a ccolant temp sensor if it is outranging itself or even removing the small torx headed screws in these sub zero temps in attempt to figure what is wrong, nontheless, test pulsers or individual stator windings, every wire in ecm terminals, and so on and so forth in these temps and early in the morning, no gloves because they get in the way, with no success or answers. Then later in the day get hit with a rash of pissed off owners going off in your face because you can not repair their unit. There are some so mad that they are spitting in your face as they are yelling at you at the top of their lungs because time and time again the unit has to be brought back to the shop and unrepairable or what you have tried does not work.

Soon as it gets above 10 degrees they will start. Some units though will be so flooded that they are nearly 1/2 quart overfull when checking the oil (overfull from fuel flooding). Other units it has taken a full day of riding to get the washed rings to re-seat so they will stop smoking blue after changing oil and replacing parts I have listed above.

Then I call Honda tech to tell them what I find, looking for answers and what do I get for a reply ? There is no problem with the 420.... they should start in those temps.... they are designed to.

I have all the updated training Honda has to offer. They tell us in our training that we are their front linesman and to let them know what is going on. Then I get a lecture from Techline that a four cylinder car is different than a 1 cylinder four wheeler. I call BS on this one. I am not the god of ATV's, I don't wear sandals... But I have been in this field and the automotive field since before electronic fuel injection, always on top of the tec-no aspect of it all as it progresses, but I get nailed by some kid reading a computer screen at Honda, telling me I shouldn't be driving a car in cold weather. Give me a break.

Honestly I quit relying on our tech line back in around 2003 or 2004 when I figured out a problem with VTX1800 bikes. A coolant temp sensor was out of range although it met specs in the books. I quit calling them, until recently, over that deal. I went to radio shack, picked up a rheostat, wired it in and confirmed I nailed the problem when it cured it by changing a value to the ecm. They were fouling plugs simular to what these 420s are. I changed the value reading going to the ecm and it worked. I never called techline since. Like a month or so after that they changed the spec in the manual and came out with a different coolant temp sensor. I never was informed about it until I ordered one a year later and noticed a different stamping in the brass for temp reading. So I researched it and that is when I found about the service manual spec change.

All I ever recieved out of that issue was angry customers and a shortage of billed hours for my efforts while finding what is wrong.

This deal has turned out the same way, only I have not spliced anything into wires to cure the issue. Trying to keep my own pay in billed hours up to snuff (I gotta eat) because my commission does not pay if ai don't fix the issue.

Never have I ever felt this way, but the temps have dropped tonight, after a warm weather break from the riff raff, and I am hoping they fire me tomorrow so I don't have to put up with it all over again. On a monday on top of it all.

I shouldn't have to purchase $600 worth of Power Commander add ons to change the fuel mapping, accelerator mapping or timing mapping to cure units that are not right from the factory. I will not cut into another wire harness and splice radio shack parts in to make them work eather. There is no pay for this type of experimenting when you are on commission, and Honda does not supply me with diagnostic devices to remap an ecm. We only have a HDS that will point out problems when a component fails, to the new generation technition who have never done any serious diagnostic proceedures or fuel injection mapping, the old school way, in which some of us have been around long enough and have experience to execute on a complete diagnostic venture with resolutions in the end. Guess I am not high enough on the totum pole to have access to this stuff.

I AM MAD AND CRYING OUT TO HONDA FOR A RECALL FOR AN ISSUE THEY CLAIM DOES NOT EXIST, as a vetarin tech.

If they come out with a sticker to warn the user not to operate these units under, like 0 degrees, that will be the chicken way out. They backfire when decellerating when it is warm out also and the exhaust gets sooty. Once they soot enough, they may quit backfiring, but the issue at hand is not cured.

Let your unit set in cold temps, like under 10 degrees, for around 8 hours then start it up. If you are lucky it will start. Of coarse it will start right up after that because the engine is warm. Now do it the next day, or after 5 hours of setting in these temps. It will start harder, if at all. The 3rd time will normally kill the spark plug. By then it will be totally black no matter if it has been ridden the past few times after cold start-up or not. Pull your dipstick and smell the fuel in the oil.

I sure hope they find a solid code in your unit when they plug in the HDS. Because it will hide the issue for a while.

Get this. If your unit runs long enough to not foul a plug, when it does the new style of spark plug cap on the 420s and 680s have a spring wire inside them that clips over the end of your spark plug. Good luck removing it. The spring wire wears a groove in the end of the spark plug end to the point where the spark plug cap and a lot of times the spark plug has to be destroyed to remove the cap.... This issue has my dog snarling at the end of his chain also. Am I going to call tech line and complain ??? Heck no ! Go figure out why...

If I end up with a resolution I will keep you all posted.

Sorry once again for the long winded complaint. I am also sorry that I have no answers for my good customers who have relied on my resolutions of issues for years... They are losing faith. The 420 is a great quad. If you are having a problem related to this topic with yours, let Honda know. They claim there have been no complaints although us in the field have been hearing all about them. Warm weather or cold.



----- Gimpster -----</end quote></div>

i feel your pain but you have to admit you pushing them to the limit......do you keep them in a heated storage buildingor do they sit out out in -0 temps

 

If you run a quad in and out of a warm building, you get massive condensation build up in the engine and differentials. The oils get milky, gear position switches in the rear cover freeze and bust etc.... Kind of the effect that a beer mug has when pulled out of the freezerr

----- Gimpster -----

 

Just dropped off bike to Dealership. Went to start it to get it off the trailer and the piece of %@#& would not even start.....not even turn over! I have a feeling a war is brewing between myself and Honda. I told the service guy that I do not even want the bike anymore TAKE IT PLEASE. I will take nothing less than a replacement......not another 420 either!
Supposed to get a call tomorrow from the dealership. Will let you all know how it unfolds.
Big thanks to Gimpster! I gave your replies to the Service Manager.
Now see what they come back with....

 

EDIT: the honda way

----- Gimpster -----

 

Sorry to hear that Wayne, but I always suggest the easiest, most common fixes first, and troubleshoot your way from there. No sense starting with the hard stuff if its an easy fix.

I'm dissapointed to hear about the 420 cold starting problem, living in Canada, I'm sure clad to have my forman with its carb heater and primer on the carb its always easy to start no matter how cold it gets.

 

Action450s, thanks for the suggestion.....kinda convinced myself that was the problem after the problem first arose. I did not mean any negativity towards your suggestion and I appreciated the feed-back.
I am not going to back down and am doing my research on a replacement bike. Salesman sold me the bike on the preface that fuel injection is a God send on the 420 since I would be using it a lot for ice fishing. I also live in Canada and would like something that will service me well in this area.
Foreman eh??? hmmmm