kciH,

What do you mean that Honda is not the "force" that it used to be? Are you talking in terms of racing teams or vehicle technology. Either case, I must disagree with you.

As far as vehicle technology, the CR dirtbikes are the most technologically advanced machines out there. About the only thing Honda could do to their two-strokes to up the ante is to add direct, or semi-direct, fuel injection. Same with the CRF. Streetbikes, Honda is still at the fore-front of technology, same with ATVs. Just look at the Rincon and Rubicon. If you are talking about their power with sport quads, technology has never really entered into it, it never had to, the competition never made it necessary. Maybe that will change now because of the Raptor, Z400, and Cannondales, but I doubt it. Honda still sells every 400EX made.

The only reason Honda doesn't have the market share that they used to is because they squandered their stranglehold on the market. They got too comfortable, and now it has come back to bite them with the success of Yamaha. Personally, I'm glad that Honda isn't doing as well, because that will only make them try harder to regain their lost position as undisputed king of the market.

Until then, I'll ride my Yamaha, thank you very much.

 

I was speaking of thier lack of advancement in the sport quad field. I know they sell alot of 400's. My point is that the 400 was a step backward in performance from the 250R, or a lateral move at the very best.

 

Knowsalot the cr125 has nowhere near the power of the yz125 in stock form. Honda may not have a factory team in 125's but they do help the riders. 125's in sx racing are nowhere near stock. They have aleast 15,000 dollars worth of work done to them. The 250 have even more work done to them. I have a 2002 cr250 and in stock form the engine has now bottom end power. It has no hit with the stock pipe. Its makes alot of hp but its all midrange. Now once you put a fatty pipe, v-fore reed cage, and port it its a great engine. Besides the engine it's the best honda ever. Super light and handles geat.

 

This is a real possibility, HOWEVER Honda is very happy at this time with their share of the sport market! A 650ex is finalized, but the only thing stopping it from production right NOW are Honda's lawyers. Honda was sued at an eight to one ratio compared to all the other manufacturers combined in the 1980's. Liability killed the 250r, and is also the reason a 400ex comes from the factory with a serious deficit in the baggage department! A machine with even a detuned version of the CRF motor is really likely to be abused by some lawsuit happy squid! Honda still sells tons of 400ex machines,whic handle great, but are of no risk of causing a lawsuit. It's that simple. Every month or so some loose cannon starts up this familiar discussion without realizing the key factors still exist which keeps a real Honda sport machine out of our grasp...Build your own or buy a Quadsport Z400 for now. $$$$$$$$real preformance costs$$$$$$$$

 

wizeguy... exactly what I was thinking... liability...

 

This liability scare is not limited to Honda. Lets take the new kid on the block, the raptor. It is in a pathetic state of tune from the factory. It is not very difficult get double, yes double, the stock hp out of one of these. The new Zuk will be tuned mildly with the waste of aluminum CV carbs just like the raptor. They use these streetbike carbs because they dull the throttle response compared to a conventional off-road type carb. The rest of the equation is durability. Farmer john has a Fourman(grizzly,prairie,vinson, you fill in the blank) and his boy wants something sporty. Do you think farmer john (read this-the vast majority of quad buyers, this is why there are 15 utes to 1 sport quad) is going to be a little pissed off if he keeps the oil changed and air filter clean in jr's new sport quad and it needs a $5-700 top end job every year. The CRF and YZF motors make lots of power and require lots of maintenance compared to motors of lesser tune. I don't think my YZF would last a summer if I changed the oil once every 15 ride, which would be 2 weeks for a kid with riding avialable right at his house.

There is a company that makes what you are all after at a very fair price, and uses technology that is more advanced than Honda. Don't think that if Honda comes out with a aluminum framed,fuel injected quad with high end suspension components that it's going to cost the same as a 400ex, z400, raptor, banshee. This other company makes exactly what you all are crying for, and they make it in america, and it's relativley quiet (compared to 4 stroke MX bikes or piped raptors,ex,etc)and you don't have to modifiy it to make it have decent ridable power. I know that they have had a few problems, but it also took the almighty honda from 85-89 to refine it's package (85 kickstarts don't work, they finally fixed the clutch prob in 89). If we all keep waiting for Honda to make something different, we may see the most advanced quad ever produced fall by the wayside. I know they don't handle quite as well as an R, but it's the first attempt, and even honda's current sport quad does not handle as well as the original. It's good to see that when an american company steps up to the plate and offers a small community of riders everything they want(except a honda sticker on it) and more, that a japanese goliath of a company that doesn't really care what you want and is concerned only about be pc,greeen,bottom line, etc still wins out. I guess some people just don't get it. Do you wait 5 years to buy a honda to see if it's proven? Has honda,yamha,suzuki,kawasaki,etc ever taken your call to see what you want? Do they even put a written warranty on any legitimate high perf machine they make? I understand there have been some probs, but they have stood behind the product 100%, and you cannot say that for any of the above mfgs.

 

Alaska YFM-I really HOPE to see one though!!!

 

KciH-Exactly! Let's support a company with the fortitude to release a no-frills machine with unprecedented technology and quality! Cannondale is looking more and more attractive, especially with the recent availabiltiy of aftermarket parts! They are seeing relative success at the races, not placing out of the top three in the PACE indoor series! I support innovation AND our country! A Cannondale Speed can be made race-ready for well under $10.0000! That's reasonable in today's age of build-your-own ATV racing! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]

 

i agree with killer on this one, i think it is bull. and i really can't see why if it was true why would honda waste time on a 450 when they are more than capable of producing a quad with 500cc or more? honda has some awesome bikes but they have to pump up the production to keep up with manufactures like cannondale and etc, don't get me wrong i do ride red and will as long as they are ahead in the game....

 

They want to "waste" time on a 450(440) because it is the race class currently. The bigger machines are too heavy. Yamaha made the raptor fairly light for a machine that does not have a purpose built engine in it. I think the c-dales are about as heavy as you can go and have a competent race machine, I would like to see them lighter yet. The only place the bigger bore motors have an advantage is in drag racing and desert racing. They are play machines, a 450ex would be fun to play on and capable of racing if done correctly. Do you want Honda to come up with a SUV(DS)? Bigger motors weigh more and they usually put them in bigger chassis which weighs more so it will hold up to the extra weigh of the motor.

If you think light weight is not important, just take into account that my 17 year old 250R trike will hang with anything they make today in complete stock form. Unless it's a cannondale of course.