The manufacturers seem to have the same mentality as the Detroit car designers had in the 40's thru mid 70's. They built huge things that were the size of a tuna boat!! Look how laughable these seem by todays standards!!! I'm with 3TV. We need a Rancher size package, with a 650 cc engine, and around 500 lbs.

By the way, I rescued a guy on a 700 Sportsman (what a hulking beast!!) yesterday in the local mountains. The IRS rear end on his 2 month old bike went to pieces. There were nuts and bolts and parts all over the place. We cobbed it back together, and he limped the 10 miles back to his truck. Hopefully, he can get it fixed under warranty.

 

I would just like to say I have never had problems with my disk brakes. Of course they will wear out like drum brakes but I have never had them fail on me or wear prematurely. I ride in mud, water, sand, swamp and snow. On my dad's quadrunner the brakes were replaced once or twice in the last 4 years, how much longer do you expect them to last? My 500i has never had a problem and neither has my Z400. Maybe you just got some lemon brakes with your previous quads.

In the past drums have been nothing but trouble, yes you should maintain them, did I? NO. Its such a pain to maintain drum brakes. There is no pain maintaining disc brakes because you don't have to maintain them.

I think the manufacturers should give us, the buyer, an option, disc or drum. Why would that be so hard? The manufacturers need to start catering to our needs and wants, they can't get away with making half baked quads and pushing them to the market knowing that if we stick the Honda name on it people are going to buy it. Same goes with all the other manufacturers. Why just make a ruber band quad when people out there would like a manual transmission in lets say, a Grizzly. Also lockers, more aggresive tires, larger racks, digital or analog speedo, floor boards, ruber band or manual, etc. These all should be options not standard equipment, lets the people decide what WE want and stop letting the suits sitting up in their high rise offices who don't even ride quads decide what WE want. Its just sad. Enough of my rambling.

My piont is, I think disc brakes are the way to go.

 

Drums = stink
Discs = ok
Kawi sealed rear brake = awesome

However I agree that discs wear out faster than drums do because of the exposure to mud, grit... etc..

 

TheRock, hillbilly is right. The most powerful tool that we, as consumers, posess, is our wallet. If we buy Honda, then Honda will think that they're providing us with enough to suit our needs, thus they'll do no more. Why do you think they're still producing the 400EX? Because people keep on buying it, even though they complain the whole time that they wish Honda would make something faster... Well, if you keep buying it, they'll keep building it...

Ostie, that's great that it's sportier looking than the Prairie. You're dangerously close to falling into the bottomless pit (which is filled with Hondas, mind you) that many car enthusiasts like to call "rice". Next thing you know, they'll be slapping a 2-foot tall spoiler on the back, cutting the springs, buying fake-xenon headlights, getting 18" chrome rims, clear corners, ground effects...
Sportier-looking does NOT equal sportier.

swheels, wouldn't you rather have an ATV that you trust to get you 40 miles out and back, AND have all of the features you REALLY WANT, not all of the features that Honda thinks you should have?

hiofcer, there's a difference between greasing the zerks and the chain (takes 5 minutes), and maintaining drum brakes, so don't try using that line. Maintaining drum brakes is a pain (generally involves removal of the tires, which sucks as it is), hitting a couple zerks and spraying a can of chain lube is easy and quick.

Bill, if the Rincon doesn't offer you EXACTLY what you want, don't buy it. If you don't want drum brakes, look elsewhere, 'cause that's Honda's specialty. Just please, whatever you do, don't buy it just because it's got that Honda logo on the side.

Bearman, take a look at what you just said. SUV stands for Sport Utility Vehicle. I think you probably meant to say that Honda says it's more of a rec. vehicle. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Also, I personally think it's sad that Honda will sell every one of them. Honda's customers complain because Honda doesn't provide them with the features that they want, yet they go ahead and buy the ATV anyway.

bbertram, YES! Why is it so hard for manufacturers to offer OPTIONS, like they've done in so many other places. Snowmobiles are loaded with options and trim levels, as are cars. Why can't ATVs be the same way?

Okay, I'm done (finally). [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

Campy, sounds like your a big time, bitter, anti-Honda person. I knew what make you owned before I even looked at your signature.

First off Honda sells so many 400EX's because consumers prefer them over the other machines available, granted it isn't the fastest but on a trail it handles better than just about anything else out there. I guess not everyone is looking for just speed.

When I decided on the Rincon I assure you my choice was not based on looking sportier. It has a number of features that aren't offered on other models, the number 1 being it doesn't have a rubber band in it's automatic trans. the second reason is that it's #1 in reliabilty and customer satisfaction over every other manufacturer out there, no one is even close. By the way you can't please all the people all the time and it's human nature for cutomers to complain, no matter what they purchased.

As far as brakes, My current Honda has been through alot of crap and I haven't had to do anything to them and there in great shape. I was on an atv weekend up at my cabin in northern Wis. about 6 weeks ago, a friend with the same make and model as you own came up with a total of 200 miles on his atv, we put on 330 miles that weekend and afterwards all 4 brakes were shot. My son rode my machine and I used a friends with disk brakes, it was grinding as I drove and squealed when I hit the brakes. You can keep your disc brakes, in fact I'm concerned about the rear disc on the Rincon (I love Kawi's). But than again it's a Honda so I'll take my chances, I can think of alot of worse logos to have on the side.

I do agree it would be nice to be able to order the machine the way you want it, hopefully that will be available some day soon.

Ride safe, Ostie [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

Campy,

Obviously you do not know Honda's products!!!

There is very little maintenance in Honda's drum brakes. They are "triple sealed" to keep out moisture and other contaminants. And the seal works very well. I now have a total of 1100 miles on my Rubicon and I have not had a single problem with my drums... As a matter of fact I have yet to even adjust them.

On that note, the adjustment is very simple. Even simpler than greasing the 32 zerks (which is considerably more than a couple.) Just turn the two tiny wing nuts on the rear drum and then you can do the fronts. This is a simple as removing the inspection plug on the wheel and lining it up with the adjustment wheel. With a flathead screw driver, adjust this wheel until it locks the tire/wheel combo and then back it off three clicks. If you mechanically inclined, this entire procedure take a total of ten minutes.

To prove my point even further do a search in the Honda forum about drum brakes. Take note of how many people are complaining about their performance or maintenance. I'll even save you the time. There are NONE.

If you like disc brakes, fine. But IMO and many others, drums are a far superior to discs in a utility/mudding type machine.

Now, if we were talking about cars, then I would definitely, without question, agree with you.

 

Logically, it would seem to me that a 3 speed auto tranny would rob power just the same as it would in an automobile. Therefore I would guess that this will be the slowest of the open class 4x4's. I think whoever said Honda is marketing this for the mom and pop crowd is absolutely correct. How else can they market it? They can't market it for the hardcore mudders who need IRS(Sportsman 700, Grizz), they can't market it for the sport 4x4(Prairie 650). But, isn't there already cushy riding 4x4's with IRS? Either way it's a Honda and they will probably sell like crazy. To each their own.

 

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]willow 22, I think you have misunderstood me, I am speaking to the fact that the Rincon dosn't offer all that the consumer wants but people are all ready lineing up to buy it, wonder why?, the only thing that I can think of is Honda's high degree of excellence, or in Honda's case Quality, It {the Rincon} may not be the fastest most able or even the strongest atv out there, but the Honda name precede it... This is why every one is willing to spent their money on it before they even see or ride one. Pretty damn impressive, as to me bashing my Honda, unlike most in this forum, i don't like bashing other peoples ride, it's my Honda i can speak of it in the way that is pleasing to me, I have owned other brands, several as a matter of fact. but like the multitudes of people that are choosing Honda's without a diff lock, disc brakes or what ever else you can think of,, I'm sticking with Honda.... So I really wonder if a diff lock, disc brakes are really what everyone wants? The fact is, I wish we would spent more time fighting to kept our riding areas open instead of bi****** with our selfs on who makes a better atv. Just my opinion. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

Ostie, for one, I did not buy my Xplorer, my parents bought it before I was old enough to have a say in the matter, plus it was a deal. Furthermore, just because I drive a Polaris, doesn't mean I WANT to be driving a Polaris. I'm currently in the market for a used sport quad, and the 400EX has occasionally crossed my mind because people are selling them a dime a dozen around here. But it's not just I want, so I'm not going to buy one unless it's practically free...

Also, I'm not anti-Honda, I'm anti-big-business. I hate the fact that any company screws its buyers simply because they know they can. On the other side of things, I actually encouraged a friend of mine to buy a Honda, because it was exactly what he wanted. Turns out, the one thing that's given him the MOST problems are his brakes. The shoes in the rear are gone (with the fronts not far from it), and it's only got 800 miles on it. I've got around 2000 on mine, and I have yet to replace any brake pads. (My own personal opinion on this is that some machines get different material pads from the factory, but I digress...)

As for the "rubber band" argument. Thousands of snowmobiles are sold in the US every year with engines putting out FAR more horsepower and torque than any ATV engine, and guess what kind of transmission they use? Yeah, that's right, a "rubber band" CVT...
Also, guess who was the only manufacturer to use the same "rubber band" transmission in their F1 car? Give up?
HONDA! Wanna know the best part? The reason they stopped using them is because they were told they HAD to stop using them, not because they were unreliable. They were too fast, and put more usable power to the ground than any other cars on the circuit, so the transmission was banned.

I definitely agree with you on the P650's brakes. I had the pleasure of driving one just the other day, and I'm pretty sure that they should use this type of brakes all the way around.

I'm glad you chose the Rincon, and I just hope that Honda doesn't try to screw you, as a consumer, as well. Good luck, and happy riding.


hiofcer, as mentioned above, I've seen just what Honda's brakes can do in some cases, but I'm sure that this one situation is an extreme. However, this isn't the only Honda I've seen with brake problems. I know quite a few people that own Ranchers, Foreman 400s, and Foreman 450's, and a large number of them have had problems with the front and rear brakes leaking, and the shoes grinding away to nothing, leaving them with... well... nothing. Some of these people are the type who NEVER do a thing for their ATV except ride it hard, and put it away wet. But then you've got the ones who meticulously wash it, dry it, clean it, check fluid levels, adjust & maintain brakes, etc., and even they have had problems with seals leaking and brakes wearing out prematurely. It doesn't make sense to me to use such an old technology, if a newer and better technology is available.

Also, there may be 32 zerks on a Sportsman, but, ya see, I'm not riding a Sportsman. I can think of no more than 10 zerks on my Xplorer, unless I'm missing a very large section of moving parts. Couple of minutes for that, and less than a minute spraying on some chain lube, and I'm done.

I do a good deal of mudding, and trail riding as well, and I've never been put into a situation where I would have wanted drum brakes.
But, to quote some dead guy (and apparently 2000Mojave, as well), to each his own...

 

Interesting. I have been a devout F1 fan for 30 years, and have never heard of this CVT trans, unless it dates to the 60's.

The snowmobile/belt thing is a bit tiresome. They build millions of vacuum cleaners with belts every year, too. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] I ain't buying one of them either. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]