Ski-Doo...LMAO(hahahaha)
There is only one REAL sled and that is an Arctic cat(just like rap yosi said),all the other kinds are just tobaggons with motors.
That F7 looks sweet and probally handals awsome, i don't know if it's the fastest because of the new zr 900 [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
And for copguy were all that engeretic and would rater go 105mph than 5mph.

 

My buddies were out riding in Yellowstone (last spring) with the F7's and the 900 the F7's were faster, just toying with the 900. They all work for Cat so thats why they had all the new sleds. Aczr2k

 

how can you say ski-doo is bad? they have the rotax engines, the best ones in the industry, now im not saying that all the other machines are bad, i just dont see how you could bad-mouth a ski-doo.

 

There is definately a market for a good dependable sled and arctic kitty isn't it,it's ok to tell fairy tales about how great AC is on a fourwheeler forum,just don't try to make people who actually ride sleds believe the story. AC might work on a groomed trail where you have somebody to tow you a couple miles to your truck. Contrary to popular belief,running a sled on a groomed trail,really isn't riding. Mountain riding in the western states or canada is where the real riding begins, riding on groomed trails in yellowstone doesn't count and AC doesn't have a clue how to make a mountain sled thats dependable. I see plenty of short tracked short dicked minnesota wonders running around the groomed trails,up on the mountain and as soon as they get off the trail,their riding is over and they begin the task of digging out. Then you have the ones who just can't help but kiss pine trees at 60mph and that leaves a bunch of that puke green plastic all over and a body bag for the minnesota wonder. The leading reason AC is garbage,is becuase the company spends all its money on race teams and it simply doesn't require that much to keep a sled running long enough to win a race,less than an hour. When AC tries to build a mountain sled,you end up with a sled thats to heavy,to exspensive, is unreliable and just basically screwed by design and when EFI goes out,you don't limp back to the truck,you get dragged back to the truck.

Ski-doo builds a decent sled,but the new rotax motors are no where near what they used to be. The 670 and 583 set the standard for durability,with plenty going 12k. The new line up has problems that shouldn't be happening. Hell it's tough to even keep the pull starter working and most guys carry extra parts to rebuild as needed. The ski-doo is probably one of the best sleds going in deep powder and thats because of the tunnel design.

Then you have polaris,basically just a copy of what ski-doo has been offering since 97 with its summit x. Parts are numerous and cheap,but the durability isn't any better then doo and the 800's have a reputation for crank and bearing problems. Polaris is a good sled if all you want to do is point and shoot on the hills,but they take a back seat to ski-doo in overall riding. Basically polaris brought its sled philosophy of building things without testing them, to the atv market and thats why polaris atv's have poor durability and reliability . Polaris didn't plan on having to compete with someone like honda who actually test there product,before dumping it on the consumer.

Yamaha makes a good durable sled and they handle mountain riding fairly well.The 700 Mountain max is a proven performer and rarely break down.

With the enviromental BS,four stroke is the nex generation of motor,regardless of wether 2 stroke can be made to burn clean or not. The biggest problem with 4 strokes,is honda literaly holds thousands of patents on high out,low weight thumpers.So development is exspensive for the other companies. When honda does enter the market with a sled,it'll be dpendable,but it will be a trail sled with a sorry suspension and tunnel.

 

I can't comment on anything regarding snowmobile reliability for obvious reasons. We are loocated in the southern U.S.

I can comment on the watercraft concerning Bombardier. We carried the SeaDoo, Kaw.JetSki, and Yam.WaveRunner lines up till two years ago.

Bombardier is by far the most UN-reliable P.O.S to ever hit the water when compared to Kaw and Yam.

I haven't kept up with the watercraft world since that time, but if Bombardier hasn't updated their engines since then...I don't see where anyone could say differently.

Have any of you guys ever been to a Bombardier Watercraft dealer meeting?? You wouldn't have been unless you were a dealer or member of the press. The only dealer response at these meetings was dealers upset because Bombardier refused to address issues regarding reliabilty. All Bombardier focused on was high horsepower even if it meant decreasing reliablity even more on an already weak engine design.

Not to mention the fact that Bombardier has the worse dealer support of any manufacturer that I have had the oppritunity of dealing with. That's saying alot being that we carried over 7 product lines at the time.

Like I said, things may have changed since then, and if it has, then that's great. All I can say is "Bombardier,..You're too late"

 

99griz. 1st off not Yamaha, Artic Cat, Polaris,or SkiDoo makes what I would call a "bad" snowmobile... Heck they have all been making them for years. I have been a Polaris man a my life, but I have rode with people who have all makes...and all and all they are all good sleds.

Also don't get down on us "flatlanders" to hard. Around here a 900cc snowmobile with a 153 inch track won't do most of us any good. We ride on the conditions we have. While I will agree with the fact that someone from Minnesota with a 500-600cc short track sled won't be able to master the mountains like someone on a mountain sled who lives in the area....But you bring your mountain sled out to the "flatland" land and start banging some dicthes with the local boys and the tables will be turned.

This is similar to the ATV debates that we see so often on this sight...Much less time should be spent bashing what someone else rides and more time should be spend on protecting our right to ride.

Now as far as a 4 stroke Honda snowmobile, I wish Honda the best of luck...and if 4 stroke sleds are the way of the future I hope someone can make one that is light and powerfull...that is the #1 thing the 2 strokes sleds have over the 4 stroke sleds right now.

Ride safe everyone!!

 

153" tracks don't exist, there are 159s, 156s, 151s, 144s, 141s, and so on but no 153s.

 

Man i feel sorry for anyone on this site that thinks a AC F7 or any other sled that they have is a mans sled. None of them even compaire to a 380 Fan cooled MXZ.

Guys the facts are clear.

Skidoo is number 1 for FIT AND FINISH. Everything just has a place inside and looks good with the polished aluminum. Arctic cat has a suzuki motor spray painted flat black everywere with all the wiring and exhaust parts exposed. Most of the stuff is rusted after the first season anyway.

Skidoo invented almost every performance gadget on a sled. Exhaust Valves or RAVE, RER Reverse, DPM, MPEM, TRA clutch, Dual Carbide ski, Rotary Valve, Case Reed Valve, Semi Direct injection (unlike Arctic Cats EFI), THey even invented Independent front suspention until arctic cat stole the design and patented it.

Skidoo's engines are by far the most reliable, 583's can hit 30000km with out batting an eye if proper care is given, 670 are close, and as for the comment on there new engines not lasting, well they are, the engines are holding up other then the 800 twin that had some piston problems and a lean condition that is fixed for this year, plus all older sleds will get recalled or have been to clear up this problem.

Skidoo's accessories absolutly kill all other brands in both quality and selection.

The Skidoo REV will absolutly kill the F7 in handling and speed. Belive me the only reason arctic cat has been real quiet with the F7 is because skidoo let people ride the REV last season and if people got to ride the F7 they would realize that its just a POS in a new body style. I feel sorry for you guys that are in the market for a new sled and are boycoting the rev becasue of brand loyalty, It is a break thru in sled designs and will dominate the trails and track.

Also the F7 is already gaining weight, AC had to move the brakes back into the engine and are stiffining up the chassie becasue at the weight they published it basiclly fell apart.

And last skidoo makes the ultimate kick *** sled the MACH Z. The Mach Z is a 800 Triple that can beat a 1000CC thunder cat in a drag and top end. You can also see how fast your going becasue skidoo puts 200km speedos instead of the 160km arctic crap puts on.

So HAHAHAHAHA to all you misguided riders who laugh at a skidoo owner. You guys make me laugh. Your about a century behind in development, and you have absolutly nothing on a skidoo sled. And if HONDA comes out with a sled bombardier will put them to shame to. You simply cant beat bombardier because of there resources and money plus knowhow. Bombardier builds stuff that goes fast period and makes sports better. Just look at ATV's, If it wasnt for the DS650 we would all still be on utils or a banshee.

So please no more lectures on sleds. I build them, mod them and win with them. I got 4 machines a Mach Z with 325 HP areodyne turbo, And stock mach Z 2001 with 159hp, a 500 MxZ 1998, and a 600 REV HO in the works, Both Machs go over 120MPH or 200KM with out breaking a sweat. I have opened up skidoos, Cats, Yamaha, and polaris sleds. There simply isnt any comparison to a skidoo setup. And Arctic cats are the worst for quality and performance Period.

 

Oh and as for the SEADOOS.

The 951 cc engine that they use is a good engine. How ever they have a water injestion problem do to a crap gastket on the exhaust. They fixed that for 2002 and the newer ones should have great reliablity.

The 951 RX-DI with orbital direct injection is a amazing machine. It has 35% better fuel eficiency and 75% less emmitions.

If they got rid of the water problem then we should be laughing. But there seedoos are nothing like there sleds. So dont even compaire them.

 

Wow mar,if they still made the 583,then ski doo would be the most durable,but they dropped that motor 4 years ago and the 597 isn't anywhere near the motor,the 583 was. Not to mention,how great is a motor that requires you to point it uphill so it doesn't flood out.The 500 rotax was terrible about flooding out. I own both doo and Yamaha. Yamaha is by far better in fit and finish and they offer a three year warranty on their motors as a standard option and I've yet to use the warranty on the two yamaha 700 mountain max's I own. Each of these sleds have over 3000 miles on them.

I bought a 700 summit and the pull starter immediately broke which is a wide spread problem.I've seen plenty of people just give up on the pull starter and use the emergency method.There have been plenty of the 597 rotax's eat bearings with under 1000 miles. With the money bombardier has,you'd think for a sled costing 7 grand,you'd at least have a pull starter that worked. The TRA is ok,just don't burn it up,you'll pay three times the money for it,as compared to any other brand. The altitude compensators on the doo are good. The hac was best,and the dpm has had problems from the start. Polaris had the accs which was nothing but standard 6000-9000 ft jetting and plenty of sleds got burned up at low elevation. How they didn't get sued I don't know.