Geez Rincon, it's like you think all your power is only kickin in when you're WFO. Having more power through out the ENTIRE powerband is what the 400ex is lacking. Say you have a 4th gear pinned double thats pretty close out of a corner. W/ the Dale, you can take the corner in 3rd gear kind of luggin it. You'll have enough power that you can accelerate quickly, and have plenty of room to grab 4th. W/ the 400ex, you could take that corner in 3rd but you wouldn't have enough room to really get into 4th gear enough. So w/ the Ex, it would be better to try to take the corner in 2nd and hope you could hit two gears in that small stretch before the jump.

Like I said before, I'm not good with words, so I hope that made sence.

 

i'm not arguing that the EX is better than the c'dale, it's just that i don't really compare the 2 quads because i've yet to see a c'dale quad, EVER!! (where i live) i agree the EX is lacking power, but for 95% of its riders it has more than enough, and from a sales point of view that's all they need. in the woods it has enough, and most on the track with a pipe,jet kit, and a filter will win the races with a good rider. raptors, bombs (too big for MX), and banshee's can't touch the EX's on the local tracks around here, in the pro class, or the amatuer class. i bet if you had a c'dale up here the EX's would still win because the some of the best quad racers in canada race where i live (they do very well at nationals) one guy has a 25 000+ 440EX he wins all the time, but a guy on a slightly modded EX is right behind him, so for the money the mods don't make that much of a difference. 2 equal riders, one on a c'dale, and the other on a EX, would be fairly close, but the c'dale would obviously win, but it wouldn't be by like a lap, mabey a few seconds at the most!

 

I have riden a 400ex w/ motor mods and no chasie mods and to be honest it sucks. The 400ex is a well balanced unit but anychanges bing out problems.
If you mod the motor the chassie becomes unbalanced if you mod the chassie you notice the lack of power. Yes the chassie if close to a stock 250r but the stock 250 did not have that much power (I used to race one) and if you modded the motor the same flaws as the ex showed up. that is why no one races a stock r hell the frames broke like crackers you did not dare race one w/o adding gussets why do you think the aftermarket fram business is so big. So when honda comes out it will not be a big motor in a 400ex chasie. also it will not be the 450f motor, if you look at honda's past they are always under stressed motors that is why they are reliable. but as was said before if you want a race bike you will give up some reliability heck the CRF450 motor has a recomended rebuild time of 15 hours. How would you like to have to tear in to that top end every few months.
IMO do not look for honda to go after the c-dale the dale was set up from the first to be a race quad honda will build a all around quad, so if you are looking for comp for a c-dale on the track you will never find it from the big 5 the market is to small.

 

well they seem to win. but you're right the market is too small.

the crf450 motor wouldn't require rebuilds as frequently as that, unless you rode it very very hard. i know of yz426's that are 3 years old, and still going, they may be worn a little, but if you're not a serious racer than it's not necisary. (sp) if that was true than a 250r should be rebuilt every hour, because the local pros rebuil their 125's and 250's after every week end of racing.

there's not gonna be no crf450 powered quad anyways, for the same reasons yamaha didn't drop a 426/450 motor in the raptor. they are smaller and make a lot more HP, wich is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

i have an idea, what if they sold a crf450 quad with something that says it's for competition use only?? but if you used it for anything else it would be your own fault??

 

As a Honda rider I would love to see a Honda race quad or even "higher tech" sport quad. If Honda doesn't come out with something like this in the next 2 or 3 years I'll probably buy a Dale if all the bugs are worked out.

Don't take this as a parting shot but after a lot of respectable finishes in the pro circuit which I don't think there are any 1 place finishes Cannondale fell off a lot in their finishes. I think the motor and handling is great but for all the technology yzf426's and crf450's are still faster and winning races not to mention the old trusty rusty 440ex's are still doing OK for being outdated and underpowered.

I think technology is awesome but I still don't understand a couple of things.

1. Why build an all out race quad with the latest technology and not have it be more powerful than the old technology 426's and 450's?

2. Why is an aluminum framed quad not 350 pounds or less? I've seen steel framed race bikes under 350.

I appreciate all replies I'm not making these statements like I know everything I'm really curious.

 

Actually a STOCK 426 or STOCK CRF450 in a quad frame is about equal to a Cannondale quad. You can't compare the two bikes and use that comparison in the quad world. The weight issue has been asked lots of times. The frame IS light, but my gawd, look at everything on the Cannondales. The motor is somewhat heavy, the battery, computer, and what seems like miles of wiring and hoses... that all adds up. The aluminum frame isn't really an attempt to make it lighter than everything else, it's more like a necessity to keep the weight under 400 lbs. A good thing about the Dales is where the weight is. The motor, battery, and radiator all sit low to keep that center of gravity low. The gas tank LOOKS huge but it's really not. It's just very shallow and extends from just infront of the seat to close to the back of the seat (under it ofcourse), so when you are in the air, the quad actually FEELS lighter than what it is. I got on a 440ex on a track and that thing felt like I was trying to jump a utility quad. I mean, don't get me wrong, it handles nicely in the air, but I felt like I had to "exagerate" my movements in the air just whip it around. Like it takes much more force to move the EX in the air than it does my Cannibal.

 

Actually, I'd have to agree with him, the Moto could use some more power on the motocross track. It does show. Cannondale has posted some wins at the pro level, just not on the GNC series. Lots of podium finishes though.

 

I would be interested in the actual numbers. I thought a crf450 put out 55hp at the crank and only wieghed around 60 pounds. I thought a moto with around 41 at the rear wheels put out less than 50 at the crank and is a much heavier motor although I don't know the real weight of it. Our local guy that never looses (localy, nationaly he says he gets a spankin') said he thinks the dales are very fast and powerful but not as fast as either the 426 or the 450. He owns out local race shop and sells used quads he's never steered me wrong he's even talked me out of spending money. I'm not saying he knows everything but he's been wrenchin'/racin'/sellin' a long time. He races two 250r s and one banshee motor in a 250r frame.

 

Hmmm... well, it might be the 426 in a quad frame is about even to a C-dale quad. The CRF450 probably does have more power. If I'm wrong, I"m sorry, this is info I've gotten from some website (not sure which one though) but I"m pretty sure they said the CRF 450 and YZF426 quads are about even w/ the C-dale quads. Also, apperantly Cannondale was able to get 10 +/- more HP at the rear wheel on their 440 MX bike and all they did was do a little head work and different mapping (they might have done a little more but it wasn't what you would call a heavy modded motor). The C-dale's stock bore motor has LOTS more power hidden in there, it's just a matter of getting the right combo's together with it to find that power. To be honest, if I had the money, I would rather put a CRF motor in a Cannondale frame due to the fact that they are simple motors (compared to Dale's) and the power is "easier to find". But since that would cost me out the ***, there isn't anything else I would ride but a Cannondale. My stock Cannibal w/ 18" Tamers has beat many highly MX ready Shee's, R's, Ex's, Lt's... you name it, I've probably out ran one out the gate.

As far as not posting any Pro level wins in the GNC's, my gawd, look at who's riding the Dales and who's wining. Put Farr, or Jones on a Dale, and they could get 1st place finishes on them too. Those guys aren't human... they ride like they're machines.

*Off subject* Thats why I like Quad racing so much more than Dirtbikes. When the 250 Pro gate falls for the bike riders, everyone just wants to see who's gonna get 2nd... everyone knows who's gonna win. When the 250 Pro gate falls for the quad riders, it's almost always a battle for the win. Thats probably one of the reasons quad riding is getting so much more popular recently. There's more excitement in quad racing, and thats what gets people's attention.
Sorry, I just had to throw that in. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

55HP sounds about right, because my brothers highly moded cr250 puts out 60 or a little more. (just a note, but the YZ426F is now a YZ450F)