lol wtf^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Let's go easy on him.......he just got out of dipers last week.........
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

Always one of those fancy talkers floating around.

 

Nyroc: I was surprised re low c.g. on the BF. Did anyone say how Kawi managed this? I thought it was sticking up in the air and I had passed on anything tippy including the BF.

Have gone a$$ over tea kettle once and once was enough. Got to stay healthy enough to enjoy our sport, right? I was thinking of a P700, now you say BF is a low c.g.? Where did you see this? Thanks for any info.

LT1: You came on strong against thousands of Prairie guys based on a false assumption. And you're new to the forum. Back up.

 

kawiyowee- what false assumption did I make? i read prairie owners bashing the new BF in other threads without even riding one. one guy that has both said he really liked the BF. i'm sorry but for a sport utility atv i want something with IRS, i like a comfortable ride and ground clearance, i don't like getting stuck because of a back axle dragging. the prairie's in my mind are more sport than utility oriented and that's fine, they're a great, very powerful machine, but to me it seemed people were kinda jealous because they didn't have the biggest kawi anymore. so far the prairie owners in this thread have been very respectable and have made great comments, except for you telling me to back off. i have my opinion and i express it on a message board like everyone else. my opinion may not be right, but it's how i feel. I really hope we get a new Brute Force. I want the big boy on the block, and i like the sportsmans, but i don't think the 800 although it will be very good will be able to match the power of the BF.

btw- let's set the record straight, does the BF have a HIGH or LOW center of gravity?

 

The BF CG is as low as an IRS quad can get it, you can tell just by looking at it. Kawi kept the heavy components as low as they could. The rider sits 3" higher, and that makes the CG higher with a rider. That has been my biggest beef.

Some people ingnorantly assume the BF CG is high just because the fenders are high. The fact is the tank, motor and diffs are as low as they can get, so I am sure it has a lower CG than the GRIZ or Rinny. I don't have any data. If someone could put their BF on wheels with now tires on the floor and tip sideways it until it is balanced, we could measure it. Also, if you lift from the left side of the racks and also see which angle it hangs, you can measure the CG that way too.

I used to have to measure the CG of boats and things because it was too hard to caculate. We would hang things at an angle and measure the angle. Then we would draw the boat's geometry. If the boat's weight is even right to left, then you now the CG is somewhere on a plane passing right between the right and left halves. Then when you hang it at an angle, you measure the angle, and the exact point you are hanging the boat from, and then you know the CG is also somewhere along the vertical plane passing though the points the boat hangs from. Finally then CG's vertical position is the point where the first plane intersects the Second plane. If you care about the 3rd dimension, you have to do it again.

I don't think prairie owners are bashing the BF. They are just stating the obvious that the BF is less stable off camber than the Prairie. Well, that doesn't mean it is as tippy as other IRS machines.

Also, there is a quad review that apears to be biased because it doesn't sound anything like the rest of the BF owners. C'mon here guys, just because a few hosers are bashing the BF doesn't mean what they say is true. You have to take every oppinion into account, try to assess the objectivity of that persons oppinion (give it a 1 to 10 rating so to speak) and add all the oppinions up.

I have whined about it without riding it because of the seat height, but I have since kept my trap shut because Kisssofdeath, a devout Prairie owner, rode the BF and said it handled absolutely wonderful and was not tippy. I know you guys don't know kisssofdeath personally, but I rate him VERY high on his ability to ride. I rate his oppinion of the BF handling a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10. He is very good at technical riding. He can ride his 650 with his wife on the back better than I can riding alone. If he says the BF handles great, I take his word for it. I put a whole lot of stock in what he said about it because he doesn't have a reason to bash the BF (like people that own a competitor), but on the other hand he doesn't own one either so he wouldn't lie and say it is better than it really is.

The BF has two weaknesses: tires and wheel spacing. Everyone seems to always get tires with ITP wheels. If you do that, you will remove the crappy stockers that have weak sidewalls and you will also make the track quite a bit wider. Thus making the BF extremely stable.

By all the power bestowed upon me by this $5 keyboard and my internet connection, I hereby officially sanction the purchase of the BF by all you Prairie and non Praire owners.

 

i DONT KNOW HOW MUCH CLEARANCE YOU NEED, my brute with 28" mudzillas ground clearance in front 14.3", rear clearance is 15.1".

 

I’ve had my Brute Force for 4 days now, it replaced the V-Force in my stable. I don’t have a thorough ride report yet because I am treating it rather gently until it is properly broken in.

So far I have had it out for 2 evening rides and can say this much. It doesn’t have the snap and crack of the V-Force (even when my V-Force was new) mainly because of the IRS, tire design, frame geometry and extra weight (as expected when comparing these two quads) but it definitely has a sportier feel than my Grizzly. It flies over erosion ditches with ease like my V-Force did and lands very smoothly yet solidly (unlike the Grizzly which lands softly but wallows / bounces some). When cruising around the rolling hills in 2WD the engine braking effect is noticeably more effective on the Brute Force than on the Grizzly (the Grizzly’s engine braking effect works better when it’s in 4WD). When it comes to snap turns, the Brute can do it but not as easily as my Grizzly. This I’m sure is because of the tires. The Brute’s stock tires perform similar to the ATR Holeshots that I used to have on my Grizzly, they tend to grab and make power sliding somewhat difficult. I can powerslide the Grizzly easily with GBC Dirt Devil tires (I have 26x10x12 in front & 26x12x12 on the rear).

Right now when I pull up behind my Grizzly (front of Brute against back of Grizzly) I notice the Grizzly’s wheel stance is about 4” wider (partially because of the ITP C-Series wheels and the larger tires on the Grizzly), however I eventually intend to put C-Series wheels and the same size Dirt Devils on the Brute too.

Size-wise it doesn’t feel like the Brute is any bigger than the Grizzly. I think a lot of the “large” look actually comes from the lightweight plastic body / fenders because there seems to be a lot of room between the plastic and the underlying frame and components (including wheels). The radiator is incredibly easy to get to for cleaning when compared to any other liquid cooled machine I’ve ever had before.

As far as “tippiness” goes, I haven’t had it yet in any of the off-camber sections that I ride frequently (I may get to that this weekend) to compare with the Grizzly. From what I’ve experienced so far I’m expecting somewhat better performance in this department because of the Brute having its gas tank below the seat and because it has a little less ground clearance than the Grizzly does. Also when trail riding and I come upon an off camber section, I like to “stand” on the floorboards / footpegs and add in appropriate body English when necessary. “Standing” instantly lowers your machine’s center of gravity by transferring the bulk of your weight from the seat (one of the highest points on the quad) to the footpegs. Also noteworthy is the slightly higher handlebar height on the Brute Force feels more comfortable when riding while standing than it does with the Grizzly (although I didn’t really have any complaints about the way the Grizzly feels).

One of my riding partners who rides a Honda Rubicon felt right at home on the Brute because the firmness of the handling and the engine braking was more comparable to her quad (i.e. better) than what the Grizzly has to offer. She never did like the feel of the Grizzly but she had no problem with and enjoyed the Brute. Another friend who has a Prairie 650 noticed the Brute as having a smoother ride than his quad almost right away.

So far the only thing I like better on the Grizzly is the 2WD / 4WD actuator switch. The Grizzly’s 4WD engages almost instantly while the Brute’s 4WD engagement seems somewhat delayed. I also think the Grizzly will deliver an overall smoother ride because of its longer suspension travel (at a cost of more body roll). In spite of the slop in the Grizzly’s suspension, I have no trouble pushing it fast through the woods and can run away from the rest of my group at will (but at the same time I’m the most aggressive and experienced rider of my group). I’m suspecting I’ll be able to do even better with the Brute Force simply because of it’s seemingly better handling characteristics when compared to the Grizzly, especially after I switch tires. This weekend I plan to find out how it handles the somewhat rough and rutted rocky dirt roads of Green Ridge State Forest (the Grizzly floats over this stuff).

I plan to make the Brute my primary trail assault vehicle for now with the Grizzly as a backup. Once I get the Brute past the break in point I’ll really put it through its paces. I’ll spare the Brute from the heavy farm work (instead leaving this for the Grizzly). This includes plowing snow in the winter (the quad loses about 2” of ground clearance with the snow plow mounts on, about 4” when the plow is mounted) and dragging logs…

 

Stability,

The Prairie is stable on off-camber hills, BUT, it is not when you encounter roots/rocks on the high side which will push your WHOLE swingarm up leaving your quad wanting to tip severely to the low side. SCARRY. There always seems to be roots on the high side that want to tip you riding around on slanted trails.

I watched IRS quads do much better in this situation with the high side giving and the low side still staying on the ground.

The Technical stuff goes to the IRS in my opinion.

Now that people have stoped bashing the Brute, I will stop bashing them.

DOA

ps. Somebody is now making onthefly ajustable suspension with an onboard compressor too.

 

I couldn't agree more. But, it is more than just roots that can do that. I have been riding on some steep nasty trails and encounterer situations where the SRA was makingthe trip down or up the hill unsafe. These are hills with deep ruts. Because the quad's angle depends soley upon the rear tires, it can put too might weight on the wrong front tire and reduce your ability to get out of the rut and I feel it is more liekly to roll or wheelie backward as a result of being SRA.

I am completely ready to get rid of my SRA. If I rode in the sand I would keep the SRA.

SRA is only more stable on hills if there aren't any bumps. But, the trails I ride have bumps. Goodbye SRA, hello IRS.